Author Topic: Firefly Armor  (Read 1881 times)

Offline rogerdee

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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2007, 03:03:20 PM »
the firefly armor was upgraded it was not just a sherman with a bigger gub
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Offline Grendel

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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2007, 03:18:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zippy41
The firefly armour should not be this strong. Only the gun was upgraded. I agree with the IL2's being different. They just don't pack the same punch.


Strange. How can a cannon weight 6 tons more than the previous one? Guess the thicker armor is just optical illusion, too. Well, libraries and searching for information is overrated, anyway.

Offline frank3

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« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2007, 10:01:41 AM »
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Originally posted by Oleg
IL-2's main antitank weapon was PTABs not guns. One plane can carry ~200 bombs (1.5 - 2.5 kg each) and single hit would destroy any tank.


A single 2.5kg bomb would destroy any tank? I find that hard to believe, unless it's some kind of specially designed tank-buster-bomb or something :eek:

If that doesn't work, a single hit of the Stuka's 1800kg bomb would do the job :)

Offline Lusche

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« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2007, 10:26:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
A single 2.5kg bomb would destroy any tank? I find that hard to believe, unless it's some kind of specially designed tank-buster-bomb  


It is. It's a shaped-charge bomb.
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Offline Squire

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« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2007, 10:44:55 AM »
Welcome to the Land Of Myth And Legends...

Where to start.

*The Firefly was not up armored, it was a standard Sherman V with a 17 Pounder gun installed in the turret. Find any source you want, it was not up armored.

*Tanks could not withstand direct hits from bombs. Here is the rub though: it was exceedingly difficult in WW2 to hit a small target like a tank, with a bomb while coming in at 250mph, which is why anti-armor cluster bombs were used later, and rockets, and cannon. A direct hit from a bomb would in all likelyhood disable or destroy a tank, *IF* you could land one right on it.

*The IL-2 and Typhoon, and P-47, and Fw190Fs, ect, were used primarily to hit "soft" targets: Infantry, artillery, convoys, trucks, half-tracks, armored cars, buildings, airfields, ect. They did attack tanks, yes, but that was not as common, and they didnt destroy near the # that some folks think. They tended to hit soft skinned vehicles MUCH more than tanks. Tank units relied on a vast plethora of support vehicles and men in the field (they needed fuel, ammo, all kinds of support vehicles), so, yes, an "armored unit" would suffer from air attack, but the actual # of tanks destroyed outright by air attack just wasnt that high.  

So, back to the IL-2, did it just show up and strafe and the MBT goes boom? no, not really. Tanks were not easy to knock out, they were hard to hit, and heavily armored. Immobilizing one was probably more common than destroying it.

AC like the Hurricane IID, Ju87G, Hs-129, probably had the best record against MBTs (when they found some to shoot)  from direct fire from AP shells fired from 37-40mm guns.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 10:53:50 AM by Squire »
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Offline Oleg

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« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2007, 10:50:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
A single 2.5kg bomb would destroy any tank? I find that hard to believe, unless it's some kind of specially designed tank-buster-bomb or something :eek:


Yes, it would. And it was "specially designed tank-buster-bomb". "PTAB" mean "anti-tank avia bomb" with cumulative (hollow) charge, say like grenades for RPG-7. It didnt blow tank to pieces like 1000lb but burn through armour causes fuel fire, ammunition explosion or so. Most tanks hited by PTABs was burned down. It was simply most effective WW2 anti-tank weapon.
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Offline frank3

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« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2007, 10:58:55 AM »
Wow that sounds awesome, and it could carry 200 of those bomblets? In a cluster-bomb or something?
Any pictures of it?

Offline Oleg

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« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2007, 02:05:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
Wow that sounds awesome, and it could carry 200 of those bomblets? In a cluster-bomb or something?
Any pictures of it?


192 in 4 clasters or up to 220 in bulk. They drop all bombs at once, when dropped from 200m altitude there was about 1 bomb per 15m^2.

I think i saw pics with IL-2 dropping PTABs, but i cannt find it now. Found photo of Yak-9B instead.

PTAB design:
http://www.battlefield.ru/pics/ptab.gif

Yak-9B dropping PTABs:
http://www.okondr.mail333.com/Yak9b.JPG
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Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2007, 11:42:25 AM »
I have put 37mm (Yak 9T) and 40mm (Hurri 2D) rounds into the back, top, and sides of a Sherman to no effect whatsoever. I did get the kill with the Yak 9T when the Panzer the Sherman was dueling eventually took him out, which did not exactly endear me to my team mate considering I'd done nothing except light him up with a dozen or so hit sprites.

Can the Hurri and Yak still kill tanks? I can remember popping the turrets on Panzers easily in earlier revisions of AH2, but haven't been able to do anything from any angle of late.

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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2007, 11:55:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
I have put 37mm (Yak 9T) and 40mm (Hurri 2D) rounds into the back, top, and sides of a Sherman to no effect whatsoever. I did get the kill with the Yak 9T when the Panzer the Sherman was dueling eventually took him out, which did not exactly endear me to my team mate considering I'd done nothing except light him up with a dozen or so hit sprites.

Can the Hurri and Yak still kill tanks? I can remember popping the turrets on Panzers easily in earlier revisions of AH2, but haven't been able to do anything from any angle of late.

- SEAGOON


The Yak is not suited to hunt tanks. It's cannon shoots HE rounds, not AP. Many people claim to have killed a lot of tanks in them, but I have yet to see any proof. they just get the credit the same way you did, but any plane in game can get GV "kills" that way ;)

The Hurri D can still take out any tank in this game. I busted a lot Panzer, Shermans, T34 and even two Tigers this tour so far.

Against the Firefly, the close range level attack from behind doesnt work as well as against the panzer. Easiest way to stop it is a steep diving attack. Aim for the engine compartment just behind the turret. Shoot between D400 and D200.


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« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 12:06:59 PM by Lusche »
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2007, 11:57:17 AM »
Seagoon, I've disabled a M4 Sherman turret with a Hurri2D. I distinctly remember hitting the spot right between the rear turret and the chasis, while coming down from about a 40degrees angle to parallel.

Online Tilt

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« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2007, 05:52:02 AM »
Anyone have any comments on the T34 HVAP rounds on the Firefly, its turret and its main body?

I have been persevering with this HVAP round to little effect so far.
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Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2007, 07:21:38 PM »
Hi Tilt,

I can't comment on the Firefly, but I'd encourage you to do some offline testing with the HVAP against the Tiger, you'll find that at close range it pentetrates the back armor and side turret armor, and that at very close range will actually pentetrate the flat portion of the front armor. This is a major improvement on the old AP which was useless against anything but the tracks of the Tiger.

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Offline BaldEagl

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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2007, 11:29:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Okay, you're right... usually takes a pair of 2000lbs several times over to kill a Tigr, but in THEORY a 250 lb can kill it. Heh.

But I've popped panzers multiple times using the 100kg bomb on the IL2, so that part's right.


I carry 2 1000's on an F6F-5.  I can take a Tiger if I use both.  I only need 1 for anything else.
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Offline Noir

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« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2007, 04:13:17 AM »
A tiger will die from a single 500lb bomb, 1K with an approx hit.

I can kill anything with the IL2 guns only, except T34's, the secret is to start strafing at D800 flyin 10 feets high, or near a 45 degrees dive. Avoid shooting on the front of the tank its a pure waist of ammo.

pzr's just go boom:t
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