Originally posted by Karnak
As I recall, RAF records say it didn't happen.
they do match up - I suggest you pick up a copy of 'Fighters over the Desert' by Shores and Ring. Its not a cheap book or easy to come by but its the definitive work on this subject.
Marseille's first mission that day:
4 enemy fighters claimed shot down (at 0926, 0928, 0935, and 0938 hrs) with 80 cannon shells and 240 machine-gun rounds.
According to Shores/Ring, these were the pilots in the aircraft which Marseille claimed shot down:
Lt Bailey (1 SAAF sqn) force-landed his Hurricane
Maj Metelerkamp (1 SAAF sqn) was injured and had his Hurricane badly shot up
F/O Matthews (238 sqn) had his Hurricane shot down
P/O Bradley-Smith (601 sqn) had his Spitfire shot down.
Marseille's second mission that day:
8 enemy fighters ("P-40s") claimed shot down( at 1155, 1156, 1158, 1159, 1201, 1202, 1203, and 1205 hrs). In addition to Marseille's claims, Lt Remmer claimed one P-40 on the same mission.
According to Shores/Ring, six British fighters were shot down during an escort mission for bombers.
Marseille's third mission that day:
5 enemy fighters claimed shot down (at 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, and 1853 hrs). In addition to Marseille's claims, four enemy fighters were claimed shot down by other German pilots on the same mission.
According to Shores/Ring, five Hurricanes of 213 sqn and one Hurricane of 208 sqn that were shot down approximately at the same time probably are identical with at least some of the German claims on that mission.
Shores and Ring list a number of additional Allied fighters lost in combat in Egypt on 1 September 1942 - although it has not been possible to verify the exact time (hour & minute):
Sgt. Sowerby, 3 RAAF sqn, was shot down
5 SAAF sqn had four of its fighters shot down
2 SAAF sqn and 64 U.S. sqn lost three P-40s on one mission
According to Shores/Ring, some of these (at least one of 5 SAAF sqn's losses) are among the six fighters which were shot down when they escorted bombers and - probably - were encountered by Marseille on his second mission on 1 September 1942.
Due to Shores/Ring, the official Allied losses in North Africa on 1 September 1942 amount to 22 aircraft (9 Hurricanes, 4 Kittyhawks, 4 Tomahawks, 2 Spitfires, 1 U.S. Warhawk, and 2 Beaufighters).
You can look at those claims by going to:
Tony Wood's Combat Claims & Casualties ListsAnd downloading the Eastern Front Vol 2. Aug to Dec 1942 PDF and then search for Marseille's name.
However, what does it really matter if Marseille only got 14 that day or if his actual kill total was 120 rather then 158? His claims were filed based on good faith and not made-up.
Marseille was a good pilot but his success related directly to the his gunnery skills and the situation he faced in NA. Marseille basically preferred to fly alone. He would have his wingman stay out and away while he attacked alone. He claimed that in the desert with the clear skies and long range visibility that it was easier for a lone attacker to jump a large formation and cause havoc and confusion. He said that larger fromation were much more easily spotted then lone fighters. With hard maneuvering and fast close bursts of fire he was able to hit, kill and get away while the flight he attacked was thrown in panic.
He was less successful early on and it have been curious to see how he performed over WETO late in the war when JG27 was flying Reich defense.
A curious thing about JG27 in NA is they mostly went after fighters. Rarely did they go after bombers or low flying ground attack aircraft. This can be verified through their kill claims.
There were plenty of great pilots on all sides during the war. The LW and Axis lost, despite however "great" some of their pilots might have been..
If you look at LW pilots like Willi Reschke, he flew about 48 combat missions and was shot down 8 times.
Then compare that to some one like Adi Glunz, he flew a total of 574 missions, including 238 with enemy contact, in achieving 71 victories (with a possible 15 more unconfirmed) mostly flying in the west. He was never shot down or damaged in enemy combat.
Now there were folks in JG27 that out and out lied about their kills. One Schwarm of 4 was spotted firing their guns in the desert by a LW recce aircraft. They returned to base later and filed kill claims. Among this group was Franz Stigler. The group of 4 was broken up and sent to separate units.
But there are plenty of 'questionable' claims and stories that get told over and over again from all sides. We all know of Lowell...
For example, everyone has also heard about the June 26, 1943 event where Lt. Robert S. Johnson is bounced by FW-190s and is almost shot down and a FW-190s "escorts" him to the French coast after emptying his guns into the P-47..
In Roger Freeman's book on the 56th FG "Wolfpack Warriors" Freeman has a statement from Gerald Johnson where he claims that he shot the FW-190 from R.S. Johnson's tail and that his claim of being 'escorted' by the 190 was an exaggeration of what really happened.
From times and location Gerald Johnson was convinced that the FW190 he shot down was that which shot up his namesake's P-47. He heard Bob's story and said nothing, although he thought that in the excitement Bob had let his imagination run away with him concerning the chivalrous German pilot. No such incident was reported from the German side.
I can list many other from all sides as well. Marseille was a great pilot but he wasn't much of a wingman or 'team player'.
