Author Topic: An alternative approach for the new player.  (Read 695 times)

Offline swift

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
An alternative approach for the new player.
« on: May 06, 2007, 01:04:59 AM »
This is my first attempt at writing something like this, so please be gentle :)
Why beta? Community response mostly, and if felt necessary to expand.

   First: an apology: Grammar is not my strongest strength.

   This write-up is my attempt to contribute to the AH community from which I've received countless hours of enjoyment.  The basis derives from many sources, firstly Ren whom took the time to show a completely new player to flight simulation on subjects ranging from stick/view setup, how to determine if an enemy plane parallel to you is behind or in front of you based on their position off your wing, and of course the web address of the ultimate resource for AH2: Netaces, all done with patience and respect. If not for him, I doubt I'd be flying today. I'm sure it was an arduous task for him, and still consider myself in his debt for taking it on.  Thank you Ren.

  Secondly my thanks goes out to TC and Murdr whom through many, many encounters made me aware of the importance of Alt, E states, angles, and above all else, situational awareness. My thanks and respect goes out to you for your commitments to the community to turn no-pilots into respectable foes.

[Start Emo]  Last, but not least, and with a bittersweet memory, I'd like to thank the pilots of the Kiss My Havoc squad, namely BullZ and cobia. Our last conversation was very heated, and I said things I still feel shame over. I offer you my apologies at having said things that were only meant to hurt, an apology 2 years late and not expected to be accepted. Misplaced anger can be a hell of a thing. [End Emo]

  Now, onto my pseudo guide for P51-D's vs TnB planes for the new player.

About me:

   In AH2 I go under the callsign of swift( with a couple shades). In this guide you won't find many intricate numbers. It is more or less my philosophies of flying the virtual P51-D given to us by HTC. I do not claim to be more than an average pilot and know of people with much greater skill than I. However, I would like to put my own opinions of the P51-D out there in hopes to offer new players a different slant on learning the game. Undoubtedly, there will be those who will vehemently disagree with the thoughts herein. All of us have different ways, this is only mine, and I implore you to explore other resources in order to find one in accord with you, especially as this is written by an autistic. What I may see as fun/enjoyable you my not. My way is that of flying to live whereas you may be looking for an immediate adrenaline rush that strict furballing offers. While some may say the P51-D is fine for this, these are generally folks who have already mastered to some degree situational awareness(SA), gunnery, angles, and E states.

   Many say that hopping right into a furball right away in a Turn and Burn plane(spit, hurri, etc) is the best way to improve your SA. I wholeheartedly disagree with this, with no disrespect intened to people who fall into this camp. When I first started, the SpitV was the suggested plane for the new player and what I started in. The results I found to be most unsatisfactory. In the following I will try my best to explain why. My reasonings come from my own experiences in combat, both real and virtual, and by applying the following books to AH: The Book of Five Rings by Miyamato Musashi, Hagakure by Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Assassin! The Deadly Art of the Cult of the Assassins by Dr. Haha Lung, The Art of War by Sun Tzu, and most importantly Fighter Combat by Shaw in a relative way.

--Why a BnZ/E-fighter vs TnB'er for the begining player?

 I am going to assume that

a) you use a joystick
b) you have setup your views
c) you have spent a modest amount of time in the TA, and
d) you are tired of flying 5-10 minutes to reach a furball just to be killed 10-30 seconds later without learning a damn thing(ie you are cannon fodder).

   It is in my opinion (and one I am sure I'm going to get flak over, no pun intended) that a low-alt furball is basically just a low-alt and slower pick-fest, for those low and slow as well as those with altitude. Always remember the lower and slower you are, the worse your situation becomes. In this I mean speeds slower than 250 and at altitudes around 500-5000ft. Under these circumstances, and again just in my opinion, the fight is much more 2-dimensional than 3(you can't go below 0ft unless your name is FireHwk ;)). I am not saying that there aren't vets out there who can work miraculous things in a furball, but then again this "guide" isn't for them. However, while intense, most low-alts depend on 4 things: SA, gunnery, the merge, and angles. In this type of engagement and as a new player your will be slaughtered. Also, you will be neglecting a good amount of Basic Combat Maneuvers and Air Combat Maneuvers as well as your E-retention maneuvers, ie: roping, defensive spirals and a host of others. Losing a merge at low altitude as a new player will most certainly mean a quick trip back to the tower.

   However, with altitude, the fight becomes much more 3-dimensional, which I feel is a much better way to develop, again in my opinion, the most important aspects of air combat; situational awareness, gunnery, and amount of time in flight. The higher your altitude, the more options you have if you are caught unawares, whereas if you are on the deck one magical merge is your end. Also, the higher your altitude, the more you see. You must be aware of both what is higher than you, lower than you, and co-alt with you which I find is a much better way to develop your SA. From above you can eventually find the general rythym of 90% of furballs you may encounter. YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THE MACRO BEFORE THE MICRO!

   You will also improve your gunnery and understanding of angles by flying in this manner. Making and scoring a high-deflection shot at 450-500 will make your shots in a furball much more accurate. Also, it will improve your ability to "get inside" a turn as this kind of high speed shot often involves throttle control, flap usage, rudder, E-management, compression knowledge, and roll. Much of the time a P51-D requires a gentle hand, too often people start off pulling full back on the stick and never quite rid themselves of the habit. I feel once you master maneuverability, both slow and fast, in a P51-D you will find hopping into that TnB plane to be much like going from driving a van to a sportsbike.

--So why the P51-D?

 Firstly, it's fast but with slow(ish) acceleration and not alot of WEP. This will help you learn how to conserve your E. Also, above 9000ft or so you are faster than an LA-7. Considering this, I would set your egress altitude at 10K as this is about the same altitude you need to be faster than the LA-7 at military power and at WEP(which he has much more of than you). Also at this altitude you are faster than your other major threats, the F4U-4(at mil) and P47-N. Your real achillies heel in the 109K-4, but keep in mind this plane has major compression issues and if on your 6, you can use this against him(as long as you have altitude!), but for now let's take it back to basics. The gun package on the P51-D is solid once you improve your gunnery skills and has more than enough ammo to get you at least 4-5 kills even if you aren't the greatest shot.

  Also, in regards to SA, you don't get better than the P51-D. The bubble canopy is amazing. Even with low SA skills, you can keep a generally good idea of what is around you until you are able to nurture your awareness and move onto the more specialized planes. SA is everything!

  Your roll rate and turn rate also stay very good at high speeds, thus allowing you to get inside a lower manuevering plane's turn while maintaining your speed. Another point to keep in mind is that E(in this case altitude) lost on your BnZ passes is rather easy to reclaim.  Overall, the P51-D is an excellent E-fighter.

  Defensively, with your weight and flaps, it is suprisingly good at slowing down if you need to force an overshoot or decide to get into a scissors. On these two subjects I suggest you consult Netaces.

  That's it for my beta version of the guide, I hope it helps at least one person. As stated before, if response to it is good I will make a .pdf version(had to compress due to post length restrictions) and polish it up, (ie: add links to Netaces for words like "merge" etc). Thank you for taking the time to read my attempt at making a contribution to the game I truly am thankful for. If I have made any mistakes, please inform me so that I may be able to fix them!

Lastly I would just ask that we keep the thread amiable.

EDIT: some grammar
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 02:25:57 AM by swift »
Taking an enemy on the battlefield is like a hawk taking a bird. Even though it enters into the midst of a thousand of them, it gives no attention to any bird than the one it first marked.

Offline 68slayr

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 01:31:25 AM »
nice write up:aok

Offline bozon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6037
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 04:24:42 AM »
nice write up (perhaps a bit too long though).

I also reccomend newbies to start with a fast plane to learn how to fight. Energy fights are slower and wider than knife fights on the deck. It is much easier to track the opponent if you are not proficient with the views system and allows you a bit more time to think.

The ability to disengage most other planes will reduce frustration levels. I preach that the ability to disengage should encourage a player to engage and be agressive in the first place. This ability allows you to declare a "draw" vs. that evasive spitfire after you tried a few moves and failed - not to avoid a fight completely. So perhaps he will end up as a "runner" but at least not "timid".

In todays roster, I'd say a good newbie plane is suprisingly the F4U "ensign elliminator". Especially the 1A is very fast on the deck and has superb handeling. It also allows to learn some flap use and has a good selection of models from A2A only -1 to jabo 1D to cannon monster 1C to the ultimate high perk -4. Not to mention it is enabled off CVs. The only problem for a newbie is the 6 view.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline swift

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2007, 04:59:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
nice write up (perhaps a bit too long though).

I also reccomend newbies to start with a fast plane to learn how to fight. Energy fights are slower and wider than knife fights on the deck. It is much easier to track the opponent if you are not proficient with the views system and allows you a bit more time to think.

The ability to disengage most other planes will reduce frustration levels. I preach that the ability to disengage should encourage a player to engage and be agressive in the first place. This ability allows you to declare a "draw" vs. that evasive spitfire after you tried a few moves and failed - not to avoid a fight completely. So perhaps he will end up as a "runner" but at least not "timid".

In todays roster, I'd say a good newbie plane is suprisingly the F4U "ensign elliminator". Especially the 1A is very fast on the deck and has superb handeling. It also allows to learn some flap use and has a good selection of models from A2A only -1 to jabo 1D to cannon monster 1C to the ultimate high perk -4. Not to mention it is enabled off CVs. The only problem for a newbie is the 6 view.


I agree about your views on the F4 series. I chose the P51 over the F4's mainly because of the higher speed flap deployment(gear dropping is a little more advanced than this guide was intended for), the relatively "short legs" that the F4 series has, the slightly lower visibility(the 6 view is one of the most important), the overall slower accelleration and top speed, the tendency to snap roll at low speeds,  and the infamous looping when trying to land.  I should have made mention of the series, but as you said my post was rather long as it is, and I wanted to focus on one specific plane.  The P51 beat out the F4's only marginally, for the reasons I stated above, but I am glad to have them mentioned in this thread.
Taking an enemy on the battlefield is like a hawk taking a bird. Even though it enters into the midst of a thousand of them, it gives no attention to any bird than the one it first marked.

Offline Sweet2th

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1040
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 11:38:32 AM »
Someone told me long ago that if i wanted to be good at this game i should fly every fighter in the planes set for at least 1 week each.When i reached the end of that list i would know the positives and negatives of each plane and how to fight them.:aok

Offline lilprop

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 01:30:50 PM »
Good write-up.

You might add the pony's endurance and ability to carry a decent amount of ordinance as additional positive traits.

I'm new to the game and I like the P-51D because it's views and speed help to keep me alive, but it's versatility allow me to focus on learning one plane that can do a lot of different things.

I actually prefer the way the B handles, but my gunnery isn't good enough for it's gun package.

Offline swift

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 09:13:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lilprop
Good write-up.

You might add the pony's endurance and ability to carry a decent amount of ordinance as additional positive traits.

I'm new to the game and I like the P-51D because it's views and speed help to keep me alive, but it's versatility allow me to focus on learning one plane that can do a lot of different things.

I actually prefer the way the B handles, but my gunnery isn't good enough for it's gun package.


TBH I am generally a pure fighter sweeper(one of the reasons I stay squadless). I don't JABO(although I must admit I am deadly accurate at it), but will add this to the .pdf file I am working on (though someone to host it is my main problem). Eventually, I hope to create an entire guide about the pony, from basics to advanced manuevers. Thank you for reminding me of the ordinance capability of the P51-D, there definately should be a section of my .pdf dedicated to it.

I was going to add more to the guide but had to take out many parts due to post length restrictions. I would have really liked to fit in the views I apply to flying from the books I mentioned, but that will be for the .pdf.

Thank you folks for your constructive critisism.

Summary of what the I intend on adding to the .pdf(though I may just make it a website):

Why not to tune to 200 at the begining of your career.
The aforementioned JABO/endurance capabilities.
Ettiquete I follow and why(ie not cherry picking when asked not to)
How to handle your most dangerous counterparts, with some illustration.
More in depth discussion of speeds, altitudes, etc.
Undoctored film footage of successful and unsucessful things I have done.
Planes I would suggest after you get a very good grip on the P51-D.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 09:29:04 PM by swift »
Taking an enemy on the battlefield is like a hawk taking a bird. Even though it enters into the midst of a thousand of them, it gives no attention to any bird than the one it first marked.

Offline swift

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 69
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2007, 09:35:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
Someone told me long ago that if i wanted to be good at this game i should fly every fighter in the planes set for at least 1 week each.When i reached the end of that list i would know the positives and negatives of each plane and how to fight them.:aok


  To a degree I agree with this, but moreso disagree. I believe learning one plane at a time and intensively focusing on that plane you will develop a natural intuition of other planes disadvantages and advantages.  This is one of the reasons I added the main threats to you as a P51 pilot, if flown well you really don't have to worry about the other's in the planeset. When I started, hopping from plane to plane just confused me.
Taking an enemy on the battlefield is like a hawk taking a bird. Even though it enters into the midst of a thousand of them, it gives no attention to any bird than the one it first marked.

Offline BaldEagl

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10791
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 01:05:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by swift
if flown well you really don't have to worry about the other's in the planeset.


As a beginner I'd say stick with one, or at least a family of planes so you can take advantage of the shared charachteristics among them that you've learned with your primary plane.  You will learn someting about the other planes in the plane set by what they can and can't do when you're flying against them but that knowledge will still be limited.

I started out in Air Warriors almost 11 years ago in a Spitfire (they only offered one).  When I transitioned here in 2001 I remained in a Spit IX (at the time the best performing Spit offered) and on the transition to AHII I transitioned to the Spit XVI (roughly equivalent to the prior Spit IX).  This gave me years in Spits to judge other planes (although I also occasionally flew an F6F-5 or a 190).

About 6-8 months ago I decided to start trying out other planes in the plane set.  Over the past 3 months alone I have flown (or driven) 58 different planes and vehicles.  As I've done so my kills per sortie, kills per death and gunnery skills have improved rapidly.  I now rarely fly the same plane two sorties in a row and find transitioning between substantially different aircraft not to be a problem.  Normally I fly 3-4 different planes over a 2-3 hour session.

There's no substitute for knowing your opponents plane inside out through personal experience but, that said, I wouldn't advocate it if just learning the game.  I'd stick with that primary ride for the first year or maybe even two but I wouldn't wait ten years as I did.  Don't get me wrong, I did fly other planes along the way but only for one or two sorties then back to my Spit.  Never enough to get to know them.  Now I commit to flying X number of missions in each plane I try although not all right together.

My goal is to be above average in every plane in the set and to be able to use it to it's best advantage.  It's challenging but it's fun, and now when I jump back in a Spit... look out!
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline lilprop

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 11:20:52 AM »
The biggest drawback of the P-15D is its ENY.

If you're focusing on learning on the D, there's going to be plenty of times you won't be able to fly it in the main arena due to ENY restrictions.

A lot of the time you can still up in a B, but that's not always going to be the case.

You might list some alternates with similar flight characteristics (and the differences you need to be aware of) to fly under these circumstances.

If I have to up in anything that significantly different than the mustang, I tend to fly it like a mustang and get killed in short order.

I have decent luck, at least for me, coping with most of the american planes.  I really have to be aware of the lower speed though.

Offline DamnedRen

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2164
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 02:01:26 PM »
Nice, Swift and thank you.

I want to address a couple of things;

1) The .50's have been neutered to the point it's like using .303's against tanks. It's been that way for a while so no big deal for new comers and I won't continue with it.

2) Since you're new fly every single plane you can. New = since yer gonna die a lot you might as well get some knowledge out of the deaths. If you can change at least once a month then do so. If you change rides once every other month, that's fine. But get out of one ride and try them all. Here's why.

Flying and dog fighting is a touchy, feely endeavor. Until you can actually see what the differences are you may never really understand just how you will defeat the enemy. Without the knowledge you fall back on what worked for you in the past. And, you might not even be sure why it worked but just that it worked. Unfortunately, planes are different and fighting the different planes require different tactics to win the day.

Now, I'm not just saying go out and fly each plane for the heck of it. I'm suggesting you get up and see how your plane flys against that other plane out there. Note the differences. Your plane is able to out turn the other guy but he can go up agasint you, or dive away and make you lock up. You just learned a few things in the engagement. What your plane can do against his and what his plane is doing against yours. Knowing the differences in the planes allows you to employ the tactics required to defeat the guy.  Think of it like this, if you get up and are having trouble turning your plane with some guy in a different plane when the plane set is reversed (you swap rides and fight) then you can expect some of the same from him. It makes learning differences much easier.

All of that being said, if you really don't know fighter tactics then you will never be able to understand if what is happening in the fight is a result of plane differences or pilot knowledge differences.

While I have a few years under my belt now if I was a beginner I'd set my priorities are follows:

Know my gauges. Understand what each is telling me at a glance.
Learn basic flight maneuvers. This includes but is not limited to Energy and fuel management.
Learn advanced flight maneuvers.
Make sure, without a doubt, I can maintain visual contact with the enemy plane at ALL times.
Learn Situational Awareness (SA). Just what is the map telling me? Or not telling me? Or, I'm surrounded. That means they're in trouble! But which one is the real threat? Which ones aren't? What's a conga line and does it provide umbrella cap? Which way is home when it comes time to bug? When is it time to bug, anyway? The list goes on.
ACM-Alright, I learned to fly. Now I have to put it to use tactically. Again, a big list of things to learn.
Ok, now we get to airplane differences....

Do you begin to understand the nature of this beast of a game. Wonderful isn't it? :) So much to learn, so much time to learn it...as much as you need!

Hope this helps.

Offline Sweet2th

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1040
A alternative approach for the new player.
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 08:09:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by swift
To a degree I agree with this, but moreso disagree. I believe learning one plane at a time and intensively focusing on that plane you will develop a natural intuition of other planes disadvantages and advantages.  This is one of the reasons I added the main threats to you as a P51 pilot, if flown well you really don't have to worry about the other's in the planeset. When I started, hopping from plane to plane just confused me.



Anyone can caught slippin.If your all about survival then hop in a 38 and hang out above the fight like the rest of them.If you stay in one plane all the time you will never know what the other planes are capable of doing.

My 2 centz:aok