Author Topic: Carriers in WWII  (Read 1027 times)

Offline GtoRA2

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Carriers in WWII
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2007, 04:42:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B3YT
don't forget that the brits were the first to land F4U's on a moving flight deck. The USNAF said that it was "unsafe to land the F4U on a carrier due to its long nose and huge prop.


It was only a little about the nose, and the prop had nothing to do with it.

It was more about bouncy landing gear, and the stall characteristics.

The plane was not the reason VF-17 didn’t got to war on a carrier, it was lack of parts in the supply line since all other carriers were going to use hellcats.

F4U-2 night fighters operated of US CVs with the birdcage canopy I am fairly sure.

Offline Puck

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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2007, 04:58:32 PM »
Um, no.  The Americans first landed an F4U on a moving deck long before the Brits ever saw theirs.  The Brits are the first to do it operationally.  They developed the technique of making a sweeping left hand turn rather than a straight in approach.  That let the pilot see the LSO (and the CV) as long as possible.  Necessity was the mother of this invention; the Commonwealth powers didn't have a front-line carrier based fighter in 1943 and the F4U was a blessing.

VF-17 was all set to go operational when they were given the choice of being a Hellkitty squad or a land based squad.  They kept their aircraft and VF-18 took their slot on CV-17.  This actually made the Marines happy, as they got a top-o-the-line second generation fighter to play with rather than some outdated Navy hand-me-down.  This was very, very bad for the Japanese trying to defend the Solomons.

It wasn't until the carriers started crying desperately for fighter squadrons in (I think...need to look this up in Tillman again) '44 that Marine F4Us went to sea.  Marine squadrons have pretty much been sailing ever since.

Once Vought and the field guys corrected the hook design and oleo bounce issues the F4U wasn't all that hard to operate off a CV.  The Marines did so occasionally even before the Corsair became a "carrier" aircraft, though generally the hooks were removed on land based aircraft.  The big problem was still that wicked left wing drop near stall speed, though.  

Still and all, the British get credit for showing the pencil necks in Washington what the drivers in the Pacific already knew.


By all accounts the Marines LOVED landing on the CVs to re-fuel and re-arm; it was a chance to eat Navy chow rather than their usual Spam and mud salad, and they took every opportunity while their aircraft were being serviced.

The Navy and Marine squadrons got along beautifully in the Pacific for the most part.  Navy F4U squads frequently relied on Marine ground crews, and when the Marines went aboard ship with their squads and service people the Navy made them feel at home.  Pretty good for an era when inter-service rivalry was an art form and the Marines were still pretty unhappy with the Navy for abandoning them on the canal.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 05:03:44 PM by Puck »
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Offline Obie303

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Carriers in WWII
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2007, 05:00:48 PM »
The American Escort Carrier, USS Bogue was vital in the search for the Japanese submarine I-52.  After finding the I-52, TBM's were launched from her deck to sink the sub in the Atlantic Ocean.  For more information;

http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050419.html

Obie:aok

Also as a side note, this was the only Japanese sub to have been sunk in the Atlantic.
I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
I have kept the faith.
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Offline Saxman

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Carriers in WWII
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2007, 06:02:00 PM »
Saratoga wasn't used for training. She was laid up undergoing repairs from kamikaze attacks when Japan surrendered.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Coshy

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Carriers in WWII
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2007, 07:24:07 PM »
I'd like to thank each of you for the replies. My nephew has done some research on his own, this will add to what he has discovered.

It seems the talk he and I had sparked an interest in him. He has a whole list of links relating to WWII, not just about carriers and aircraft, but also about the war in general.

Hopefully I can instill a bit of respect in him for those who gave everything for their country.
Currently flying as "Ruger"

Offline Spikes

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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2007, 07:40:23 PM »
You should get him on the game...
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Offline Puck

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« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2007, 09:09:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
Saratoga wasn't used for training. She was laid up undergoing repairs from kamikaze attacks when Japan surrendered.


Used mostly for training 1944-1945; returned to combat 1945. Bombed 21 Feb 1945; severe damage. Repaired at Bremerton Navy; rear elevator removed, half the hanger converted to berthing. Final wartime displacement well over 52,000 tons. Used as troopship postwar. Deemed unfit for further service due to age and wear; used as target ship for Operations Crossroads atom bomb tests. Survived first test blast, but was  sunk by second test 25 July 1946. Stricken 15 Aug 1946.
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2007, 10:16:33 PM »
Actually after the second test they STILL had to manually scuttle her.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2007, 06:53:46 AM »
First carrier strike ever: British in WWI.
And yes, they certainly did have carriers, as well as developing many breakthrough tricks in carrier ops.
It was the British that torpedoed Bismarck in 1941 from a bouncing carrier in the N-Atlantic. Already in 1940 they landed LAND-BASED Hurricanes on a carrier (No special equipment). It was the Brits who torpedoed the Italian battlefleet at Taranto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto) more than a year before the Japs copied the act at Pearl, - and it was done at NIGHT. And it was the Brits (Jeffrey Quill) who came up with the turning approach for landing a long-nosed (and forward winged) aircraft on a carrier, - in that case the Seafire.
To cut a long story short, the Brits used carriers extensively and in all theaters, the carrier ops starting in 1939 and ending in 1945.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline MiloMorai

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Carriers in WWII
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2007, 07:11:52 AM »

Offline B3YT

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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2007, 05:09:30 PM »
i sorta stand corrected .
As the cleaners say :"once more unto the bleach"

Offline Jester

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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2007, 12:20:52 PM »
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
True, but the basic design of the carrier itself was what I was focusing on.

Also the Japanese Carriers, save the Shinano, had smaller complement of aircraft.  And even then, given it's huge size, the Shinano didn't carry a lot.


SHINANO actually wasn't designed as a "Fleet Carrier" but more as a floating repair/replenishment base for the Main Fleets aircraft. She wasn't designed to fight in the front line but to repair and replace aicraft for the "Fleet" carriers.

Because of losses to the regular FLeet Carriers she was pressed into this role and was sunk by the submarine (USS Archerfish I think) on the way to battle.

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