f4u-1a vs. 1d

[sntslilhlpr6601]

the last month or so i have been learning to fly the f4u and boy what a great bird. the more i fly it the more i love it. not only is it great at high speeds but you  pop some flaps out and you can turn with the best of them. and i am steadily improving on the art of the overshoot. ok with that said i just have a quick question. what's the difference between the 1a and the 1d (besides ord loadout)? both soda's evaluations and netaces don't have any data for the 1a.

[Blooz]

The F4U1A has the top speed of the F4U1 and the climb rate of the F4U1D.

The F4U1A has the same fuel load as the F4U1 also that gives it more range than the F4U1D.

[humble]

The 1A is a bit faster, the D accelerated a bit better and climbs just a bit better. Even fight, equal pilots a D will win the angles fight and a 1A has just a bit more total E to work with....edge (IMO) to the D...

[SkyRock]

1's own d's!:aok

[humble]

hehe some 1's own d's:)....

You prefer the 1a blukitty drives the D...

[GooseAW]

I prefer the 1s as well.

[Widewing]

Specific performance data for the F4Us....

Sea level speed. Fuel 25%, zero burn. WEP engaged.

F4U-1: 359 mph
F4U-1A: 366 mph
F4U-1C: 357 mph
F4U-1D: 358 mph
F4U-4: 376 mph

Speed at 10,000 feet:

F4U-1: 390 mph
F4U-1A: 392 mph
F4U-1C: 380 mph
F4U-1D: 380 mph
F4U-4: 398 mph

F4U-1A speed at altitude tests. 25% fuel, zero burn. WEP engaged.

406 mph @ 18,000 feet
411 mph @ 19,000 feet
419 mph @ 20,000 feet
416 mph @ 21,000 feet
414 mph @ 22,000 feet
412 mph @ 23,000 feet
409 mph @ 24,000 feet

F4U-1D, best speed at best altitude:

409 mph @ 20,000 feet

Turn radius, all F4U types, 25% fuel, zero burn:

F4U-1A: 422.6 feet
F4U-1: 425.3 feet
F4U-1D: 427.3 feet
F4U-4: 428.1 feet
F4U-1C: 443.4 feet

Time to climb from sea level to 10,000 feet, 25% fuel, zero burn. WEP engaged:
(note that the -1 and -1A carry more weight of fuel at 25% than the -1C and -1D)

F4U-1: 2:41.26
F4U-1A: 2:27.75
F4U-1C: 2:33.35
F4U-1D: 2:20.03
F4U-4: 1:58.39

Acceleration test for the F4U-1A, from 150 mph to 250 mph: 23.37 seconds, about 1 second faster than the F4U-1D.

Another thing to note about the F4U-1 and F4U-1A.

If you take an external fuel tank or a bomb, after it is dropped the bomb rack  remains and cannot be jettisoned.

This results in a speed reduction of 6 mph, or 353 mph for the -1 and 360 mph  for the -1A at sea level.

Adding rockets to the F4U-1D, F4U-1C and F4U-4 will result in a loss of 6 to 8 mph (depending on model) due to the added drag of the rocket tabs. There is no penalty for bomb pylons on the -1C, -1D and -4 as these are permanent installations and factored into the speed model.

This should provide you with the required info to choose an F4U based upon actual test data.

My regards,

Widewing

[Emu]

Interesting data Widewing.  So, for the war (real life), the real advantage for introducing the D series over the As, other than loadout, was ....

?

Emu

[Krusty]

Reduced weight = better turn, maybe that was the advantage?

Stronger engine, so better accel/climb?

Keep in mind they were up against the very nimble Japanese aircraft, these attributes (turn, climb, acceleration) would be prized by USN pilots, I'd think.

[Engine]

On a completely separate side note - The speed reduction on the 1 and 1A due to non-jettisonable (I hope that makes sense) bomb racks... Is there a list of planes similarly affected by rocket tubes/bomb racks, etc?

Just curiosity. I rarely fly Jabo so I only remember the rocket tubes on the P47D-11... or was it the 25? See, I need a list!

[Krusty]

All planes incur drag from racks in this game. Rocket racks, bomb racks, DT racks.

Only places where the rack is permanently installed (P38s, P51s, P47s) does it not induce extra drag. These planes do increase drag with rocket rails, though.

[Engine]

Really? I could have sworn that most of our planes weren't penalized by the racks after dropping the bombs, and that's why the planes that are penalized stand out to me. For instance, I seem to recall the Tiffie still incurs drag due to the rocket rails even after the rockets are fired, but most planes don't get that penalty.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Emu
Interesting data Widewing.  So, for the war (real life), the real advantage for introducing the D series over the As, other than loadout, was ....

?

Emu

The F4U-1D was developed to be a fighter-bomber. Thus, it was fitted with multiple pylons for bombs and drop tanks. It was also wired for 5" rockets. F4U-1D squadrons were replacing TBM and SB2C squadrons on fleet carriers during the last 6 months of WWII. They could carry as much ordnance, and could fill the fighter (and anti-kamikaze) role as well, which the dedicated bombing types could not.

By 1945, there was no Japanese Navy of any consequence, so torpedo bombers were of little use. TBMs switched to dive and level bombing. However, they still required escort. Putting the F4U-1D and F4U-4 on the carriers solved the escort issue (they didn't need escorts) and still provided the fleet with a very powerful attack aircraft. Adding to that, the carriers doubled their fighter coverage.  

My regards,

Widewing

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Emu
Interesting data Widewing.  So, for the war (real life), the real advantage for introducing the D series over the As, other than loadout, was ....

?

Emu

Ord loadout

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Engine
Really? I could have sworn that most of our planes weren't penalized by the racks after dropping the bombs, and that's why the planes that are penalized stand out to me. For instance, I seem to recall the Tiffie still incurs drag due to the rocket rails even after the rockets are fired, but most planes don't get that penalty.

Speed penalties depend upon the aircraft.

For example, the Spit16 suffers a loss of speed when you select bombs.

Max speed at sea level, clean: 343 mph

Max speed having dropped a slipper tank: 343 mph (no penalty)

Max speed after dropping a 500 lb bomb: 342 mph (1 mph penalty for belly shackles)

Max speed after dropping 500 lb and two 200 lb bombs: 340 mph (3 mph penalty for belly and wing shackles)

Here's the Bf 109G-14:

Max speed at sea level, clean: 357 mph

Max speed after dropping belly tank or 250 kilo bomb: 351 mph (6 mph penalty)

Other aircraft have bomb pylons or shackles as a permanent installation. Thus, their max speed is the same if the were clean or had dropped bomb(s) or fuel tank(s).

This group includes those the F4U-1C, F4U-1D, F4U-4, P-51B, P-51D, P-47D-25, P-47D-40, P-47N, all P-38s, Ki-84, Ki-61, N1K2-J and many more.

Adding rockets has its own drag penalty in addition to bombs.

I'm not aware that anyone has tested all possible ordnance combinations on all fighters to determine what drag penalties are associated with the various load-outs. I've tested about 50% of the fighters. It's a time consuming process.

My regards,

Widewing