Author Topic: 4-Hog or Pony D (Read 2614 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #30 on:** May 18, 2007, 02:57:42 PM »

F4U-4 will eat the Ki-84 for lunch if the F4U pilot has a clue about how to use it.

Lusche · « **Reply #31 on:** May 18, 2007, 03:27:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
F4U-4 will eat the Ki-84 for lunch if the F4U pilot has a clue about how to use it.

Absolutely.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #32 on:** May 19, 2007, 09:43:15 PM »

F4U-4 completely outperforms the Ki-84 in practically every way, though it often seems the other way around for the F4U-1A and Ki-84, both of which entered service in the same year if i'm not mistaken.

In that scenario, it seems that the F4U-1A can only outdive and sometimes, outzoom the Frank. In fact, the frank's powerloading helps it to hang w/ the Corsair sometimes. I feel, unfortunately, that really good Frank pilots have the ability to eat my A-Hog alive, though it's very rare to see a good Frank pilot. Making a Frank overshoot usually isnt a problem, but some of them are smarter than that. I really don't think there's much an F4U-1A pilot can do against a good Ki-84 pilot.

Saxman · « **Reply #33 on:** May 19, 2007, 11:11:15 PM »

Stay high and stay fast. Frank won't hang with ANY Hog in high-speed maneuvers, especially involving roll--although the F4U's rate of roll is among the best at any speed, really challenged only by the 190s and Spixteen. The F4U's instantaneous turn, particularly with Der Uberflappen deployed, appears to be marginally superior, and she WILL turn inside the Ki-84 at full flaps. However IMO don't ride your flaps. Practice learning when to drop a notch for that extra bump of the nose to get a snapshot. Set your guns in close range and GET in close. At 200yds the Deuce is lethal.

Oh, and the only way the 84 will catch (or lose) the F4U in the zoom is if she has too much of an E-advantage already, however even that's dicey. The F4U has too much mass behind her for a Frank to count on that.

Also, with equal energy states and unless he's already parked 400 yards off your six, the F4U will generally lose the Frank in a spiral climb.

Use your rudder, especially coming over the top of high yo-yos. Can't stress enough the Hog has one of the most effective rudders of any fighter, especially in vertical maneuvers. Kicking hard rudder and dropping a notch of flaps to help swing the nose over and give your playmate a nasty surprise.

SgtPappy · « **Reply #34 on:** May 19, 2007, 11:27:37 PM »

Spiral Climb, huh? Hm never thought of that in an F4U before.

Saxman · « **Reply #35 on:** May 20, 2007, 12:32:11 AM »

Executed properly the F4U can maintain the spiral almost indefinitely. Even some of the better straight climbers would be hard-pressed to keep up because of the Hog's ability to hang on to energy (I've done it against Franks, 38s, Spixteens and La-7s, generally with success). Just hold the spiral until your opponent gives up and as he levels out to break off or hangs himself out to dry kick inside rudder to flop over on him for a shot.

It's particularly effective against Zeros. They will NOT be able to follow you.

Red Tail 444 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 21, 2007, 09:50:07 AM »

The corsair was the absolute king of the cpiral climb in the PTO. The problem in ecexuting it is that it takes time to complete. Most people are too busy watching the target and not their gauges.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2007, 10:07:50 AM »

There was a CT scenario a couple years back simulatuing the south american soccer wars of the 1960s where late model F4U (-4 or -5) fought P51Ds in real life. The AH F4U4 completely owened the P51Ds - I distinctly remeber laughing how easy it was to slaughter 51Ds in the -4 hog.

I doubt things have drastically changed in that matchup since.

Krusty · « **Reply #38 on:** May 21, 2007, 10:26:00 AM »

It's easier now, since the airflow recode.

P51s got a small handling benefit, but Corsairs became uber with the recode. Flat out uber. If you get killed in 'em it wasn't because of aircraft deficiency.

Widewing · « **Reply #39 on:** May 21, 2007, 05:19:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
It's easier now, since the airflow recode.

P51s got a small handling benefit, but Corsairs became uber with the recode. Flat out uber. If you get killed in 'em it wasn't because of aircraft deficiency.

Krusty, that's exactly the opposite of what actually happened with the drag model update.

P-51s suffered a big increase in drag associated with flap use as well as increasing the turning circle diameter. Currently, the P-51D can be out-turned by every fighter save the 190s. The Brits found the Mustang to be a better turner than the Jug, Tempest and Typhoon. Not so in AH2, at least not now. Turn radius increased by about 100 feet.

On the other hand, the F4U is virtually unchanged from before the drag model change. Turn radius is unchanged.

My regards,

Widewing

Krusty · « **Reply #40 on:** May 21, 2007, 05:26:53 PM »

I think the F4u changed a lot. Before the airflow recode I would fly the F4us on and off. They would be more like P-47s, in that they could turn, but wouldn't out-turn much (rough rough ROUGH generalization here).

After the airflow recode they're suddenly hanging with spit16s and spit9s and have seemingly no flaws (again, rough generalization).

I think the benefits granted to the Corsair are 90% of the gain, and the problems with the P51 are 10%. That's my opinion.

1K3 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2007, 06:06:51 PM »

FM model changes from last year

The winners

F4U series
Bf 109 series
P-47 series

The losers

P-51 series
P-38 series

Angus · « **Reply #42 on:** May 21, 2007, 06:48:10 PM »

A hog4 will NOT own all US fighters in all departments at all alts.
Try stallfighting an FM2 on the deck

Then try some knifefight with the best of the brits and LW.......109F and Spit 16 at 10K or less.

Then I have to think about the higher altitudes.....

evenhaim · « **Reply #43 on:** May 21, 2007, 06:52:54 PM »

save the p51 free tibet!!:cry

Angus · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:08:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
Krusty, that's exactly the opposite of what actually happened with the drag model update.

P-51s suffered a big increase in drag associated with flap use as well as increasing the turning circle diameter. Currently, the P-51D can be out-turned by every fighter save the 190s. The Brits found the Mustang to be a better turner than the Jug, Tempest and Typhoon. Not so in AH2, at least not now. Turn radius increased by about 100 feet.

On the other hand, the F4U is virtually unchanged from before the drag model change. Turn radius is unchanged.

My regards,

Widewing

AFAIK, RAF pilots flying the Mustang (III) had full confidence turnfighting with both 109's and 190's.
Those would be late 190A's and 109G's of course, unlike the cross-year series of the AH MA.
One notch of flaps, deployed nice and easy and they'd turn nicely.
From first hand though, from a pilot that flew both the Spit and P51, he said that the P51 would lose a dogfight, no doubt.
I remember an account of a mockfight between a P51 (H?) and a F4U (4?) where the hog had the better (another ?). The pilot of one was John Glen.
Anyone?