Author Topic: Immigration reform...Need a pointer  (Read 427 times)

Offline Jackal1

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« on: May 18, 2007, 07:22:48 AM »
I have tried digging past the smoke and mirrors routine to get to the real "meat" of this latest proposal and have not had much luck.
What I am looking for is what, if any change is proposed on the most important issue, at least IMO.
Can someone point to me the part that in which anything is taking a step forward or actualy changing for the main end result.......crime/ punisment for those caught in this country illegaly , if and when this takes place?
From whitehouse.gov............... ........................
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Putting Border Security And Enforcement First

Border Security And Worksite Enforcement Benchmarks Must Be Met Before A Temporary Worker Program Is Implemented.  These benchmarks include:

    * Miles of fence constructed.
    * Number of Border Patrol Agents hired.
    * "Catch and Return" continues at the border.
    * Employment Eligibility Verification System ready to process all new hires
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Catch and Return" continues at the border.    ????????????????????????
Seems to me that it accomplishes nothing as for as actualy getting down and dirty on the real issue. Are we wasting time and money again to put into law a new "touchy feely", "whitewash" law that has no backbone to it?
To me, glittery laws aimed to make the law abiding naive get a warm fuzzy feeling are a joke.
Laws that automaticaly assume that the non law abiding will give a rat`s behind one way or the other don`t cut it. That goes for both sides of the border IMHO.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2007, 07:33:33 AM »
The way I understand it.
Any illegal here would be able to get a legal visa if
They pay 5K
Return back to their country of origin and get the visa stamped.
Then they may return legally.

Personally I like it.
Seems fair

As far as catching them at the boarders is concerned.
Anything short of shooting them on sight is unacceptable to me


If I had the power to do so I woud institute another way.
Anyone here illegally may stay and become legal citizens PROVIDED

They (both men and women alike)join our armed forces in forward combat units in the middle east for a period of no less then 4 years.
After that 4 year stint. They would become fully legallised citizens
But they have to serve the full 4 years and serve them in active forward combat units IN the middle east.

I'd have so many people named "Jesus, Maria and Jose" over there.
they would think it really was the second comming
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 08:17:05 AM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline Odee

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 07:34:47 AM »
Search under Eisenhower for "Operation Wetback".

Now search for "Immigration Control" and "Ted Kennedy"

got all those?  Read them yet?

Good, now ask yourself why you want your gov to send the message to all illegals to "Come on down, we're only blowing off at the mouth about getting serious!"

Only problem now is that all the parties see this as more votes for them, and nothing is going to get resolved on immigration control...  and I'll put my house up as collateral for any bet to the contrary.
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Offline Jackal1

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 07:44:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Odee
[/i]!Only problem now is that all the parties see this as more votes for them, and nothing is going to get resolved on immigration control...  and I'll put my house up as collateral for any bet to the contrary.


When you talk to your booky, put me down for about 10 grand also, would ya?

Yea Dred......"The way I understand it.
Any illegal here would be able to get a legal visa if
They pay 5K
Return back to their country of origin and get the visa stamped.
Then they may return legally."...........that`s the touchy feely part I was referring to.
Without any crime/punishment change for those caught in this country if and when this is supposed to take place...........the rest is just eye candy for the naive. Means nothing.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline RedTop

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 03:16:22 PM »
It's amnesty.....and a free green card. Same as always.
Original Member and Former C.O. 71 sqd. RAF Eagles

storch

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 03:39:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Odee
Search under Eisenhower for "Operation Wetback".

Now search for "Immigration Control" and "Ted Kennedy"

got all those?  Read them yet?

Good, now ask yourself why you want your gov to send the message to all illegals to "Come on down, we're only blowing off at the mouth about getting serious!"

Only problem now is that all the parties see this as more votes for them, and nothing is going to get resolved on immigration control...  and I'll put my house up as collateral for any bet to the contrary.
make that three.

Offline Nilsen

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Re: Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 05:01:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
Re: Immigration reform...Need a pointer


If they aint "welcome" you show em to the door.... in a way they understand :cool:

Offline RedTop

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 05:32:08 PM »
Immagration Reform?  Need a pointer? Australia may be on to something...


Australia, why can't we do this?

 

 Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law

 were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as

 the government targeted radicals in a bid to head

 off potential terror attacks.

 

     A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders

 pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a

 special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he

 and his Ministers made it clear that extremists

 would face a crackdown.  Treasurer Peter Costello,

 seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some

 radical clerics could be asked to leave the country

 if they did not accept that Australia was a secular

 state, and its laws were made by parliament.  "If

 those are not your values, if you want a country

 which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then

 Australia is not for you", he said on National

 Television.

 

     "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that

 there are two laws governing people in Australia:

 one the Australian law and another Islamic law, that

 is false.  If you can't agree with parliamentary

 law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer

 Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another

 country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a

 better option", Costello said.

 

     Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be

 forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship

 could possibly be asked to move to the other

 country.  Education Minister Brendan Nelson later

 told reporters that Muslims who did not want to

 accept local values should "clear off.  Basically

 people who don't want to be Australians, and who

 don't want to live by Australian values and

 understand them, well then, they can basically clear

 off", he said.

 

     Separately, Howard angered some Australian

 Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy

 agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

 

     Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.

  Take It Or Leave It.  I am tired of this nation

 worrying about whether we are offending some

 individual or their culture.  Since the terrorist

 attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in

 patriotism by the majority of Australians."

 

     "However, the dust from the attacks had barely

 settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began

 complaining about the possibility that our

 patriotism was offending others.  I am not against

 immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone

 who is seeking a better life by coming to

 Australia."  "However, there are a few things that

 those who have recently come to our country, and

 apparently some born here, need to understand."

 "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural

 commun ity has served only to dilute our sovereignty

 and our national identity.  And as Australians, we

 have our own culture, our own society, our own

 language and our own lifestyle."

 

     "This culture has been developed over two

 centuries of struggles, trials and victories by

 millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

 

     "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese,

 Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other

 language.  Therefore, if you wish to become part of

 our society ... Learn the language!"

 

     "Most Australians believe in God.  This is not

 some Christian, right wing, political push, but a

 fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian

 principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly

 documented.  It is certainly appropriate to display

 it on the walls of our schools.  If God offends you,

 then I suggest you consider another part of the

 world as your new home, because God is part of our

 culture."

 

     "We will accept your beliefs, and will not

 question why.  All we ask is that you accept ours,

 and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

 

 

      "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you

 don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously

 consider a move to another part of this planet.  We

 are happy with our culture and have no desire to

 change, and we really don't  care how you did things

 where you came from.  By all means, keep your

 culture, but do not force it on others.

 

     "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR

 LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity

 to enjoy all this.  But once you are done

 complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag,

 Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of

 Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one

 other great Australian freedom,

 

       'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

 

     "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE.  We didn't

 force you to come here. You asked to be here.  So

 accept the country YOU accepted."
Original Member and Former C.O. 71 sqd. RAF Eagles

Offline Gunthr

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 06:10:03 PM »
i'm still studying the bill.  i have mixed feellings so far:

Pros -

 - it is FAR better than what we have now.

- in a way, it acknowledges that we have been complicit in illegals coming here by winking at it all these years because it helped our economy- including complicity by our highest officials

- it isn't a bad idea to be very close to Mexico, our next door neighbor, considering that other latin countries in the region are either communist or socialist, and definately anti-American

- many of the illegals here have become our friends

- we can't afford to deport the illegals.  it just aint  gonna happen.

Cons -

- fat prettythanged party-boy ted kennedy has his wet fingers all over it

- we might be able to hold out for a little more stringent bill - with more $ for border security

- not enough safeguards that will ensure future enforcement
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline FrodeMk3

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 06:51:08 PM »
Ok. The catch to the whole thing is that they have to come up with the $5k, right?

They could work they're whole lives in Mexico for less than $10 dollars a day. Very, very few would ever save that money. However, Most of them make that much in a couple of months up here; Follow me so far?

That means, they still sneak across, still do everything they're doing now, only that it set's up a permanent 'amnesty' program. They save enough to get Citizenship for one. Ok, Now, they start sneaking across the rest of the family. Well, one of them has established a residence with a green card, so why worry about everyone else? INS shows up...El Papa answers' the door. Everyone else is hidden in back. He's a U.S. Cit., so unless they've got a warrant, they can't search his house.

Listen guys...With the damage that's being done to Regular American Citizens, to our economy, and to the emergency social programs that we all pay taxes to support...A compromise bill such as this, Is worse than nothing at all. Politicians will pat themselves on the back, and tell us that this is the "Fix". It is not. It will make things much worse. We've got huge problems to solve, Even if we were to completely close our borders, allow absolutely no immigration(Legal, or illegal) It would take us a decade or more to properly assimilate all that have come over recently, and assimilate what we have into our social structure. As it is...We continue to plunge forth into the abyss.

Offline Speed55

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 06:52:19 PM »
Suppose your average joe decided to start a non profit company to get rid of illegal immigrants in his community.

He bought a bunch of large trucks and accepted donations for gas money and tolls.

Is an american allowed to "capture"  an illigal immigrant and transport him somewhere, like to a deportation center or something?

Being that they're illegal, technically they don't have any rights, right?
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Offline Jackal1

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 07:04:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Speed55

Being that they're illegal, technically they don't have any rights, right?


Technically they have more rights and benefits , at the moment, than the average U.S. citizen.
Try stop paying taxes for a while and see what happens to you.
Try getting free education for your kids........medical care, etc.
For me, the Mexican illegals here now, can go through the process and become citizens. I don`t have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is the fact that it sends out a message that there will be NO change as far as punishment goes for those caught in the U.S. illegaly if and when this smoke and mirrors BS is passed.
It`s an open invitation to anyone, with any intent , to enter and not have any worries.................inclu ding terrorists.
As it stands, the worst that can happen is you get deported. Big Whoop. It`s regroup time and try again.
There is no meat and taters on that plate for the U.S. citizen. It`s a farce.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Gunthr

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2007, 07:09:07 PM »
my understanding is that the bill applies only to illegals in the country prior to Jan. 01, 2007.   not those arriving afterwards.
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Mr No Name

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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2007, 07:12:19 PM »
Press "1" for "ADIOS!"
Vote R.E. Lee '24

Offline FrodeMk3

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Immigration reform...Need a pointer
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2007, 07:13:14 PM »
Hey, have any of you ever wondered, what would happen to you if you Got a big bag of "18 inch zipties, hung around down at the border, and made a citizens' arrest on a border crosser?

Does anyone know someone who's tried this? Where the arresting person did everything by the book and legally?