Author Topic: ARGH I HATE CH Products (all fo them!) (Read 7115 times)

uberhun · « **Reply #45 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:02:13 PM »

Micro center is carrying Ch products now. I found that interesting:noid

Gwjr2 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:05:00 PM »

Fester check this out Ebay has a few

Ghastly · « **Reply #47 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:16:03 PM »

Quote

I've been through two pedals, 2 throttles and on my 3rd stick - and none of them work properly, even now

I can honestly say that I myself - having had just the flakey stick described here - http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4607
am much less of a believer than I once was in the reputation of the CH Products.

Perhaps the rest of the Rolex's comment was over the top, but had I been through over a $1000 worth of the controllers, I'm certain I'd much less thrilled than I am now.

Will I continue to use mine? Sure - because the only other reasonable alternative costs significantly more - and THEN requires significant modification on top of that - to bring it to what I consider an acceptable baseline. But I sure didn't expect to have to muck about with them when I bought them, other than replacing parts that wear out (i.e. pots)

Murdr · « **Reply #48 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:30:39 PM »

My numbers for x, y, and rudder are rock solid at deflection, and only flicker single digets at center in the AH panel.

Dang, not only did you get a responce from a former CH-Products Tech, but you got a reply from current CH personel too.

Grits · « **Reply #49 on:** May 21, 2007, 05:00:13 PM »

I have the whole CH USB setup and after 5 years its still rock solid. Every couple of months I have to recalibrate, but other than that they have worked flawlessly.

Noir · « **Reply #50 on:** May 21, 2007, 05:05:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Citabria
using new USB versions of pedals and fighterstick with an x45 throttle.

can anyone give me some Aces High Deviation numbers? I tend to see from 31900 to 32500 ie a 300-600 point fluctuation. is this what you see on the analog readout for X or Y axis ack ack?

I would just like to be sure they aren't all this bad before I send it back and get back the same lousy fluctuations in a nother new stick.

I have 100-150 deviation on both axis when moving the stick, on a saitek aviator (wich is pretty nice to play AH)

Slash27 · « **Reply #51 on:** May 21, 2007, 05:09:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd
ahhhh the Internet... where everyone gets a chance to slander with no repercussions.

The ONLY thing that ever leaves this factory is NEW product. If it is defective then it comes back here and the offending piece(s) are thrown away. They never go back out to end users. End of story.

Fester/Citbaria your answer is waiting for you at the Hangar. Here is the link... http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4630

Stupid customers and their "opinions". Spend their money for stuff that doesn't work and then have the audacity to complain. Thanks for for helping me make up my mind never to spend a dime on CH products.

BaldEagl · « **Reply #52 on:** May 21, 2007, 05:14:42 PM »

I'm still using my 11 year old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro without a glitch. I'd guess it's got 2 hours per day or ~8000 hours on it (almost the equivalent of a full year of 24 hour per day use). From what I'm hearing if it ever breaks I might have to quit.

scottydawg · « **Reply #53 on:** May 21, 2007, 06:44:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm still using my 11 year old MS Sidewinder 3D Pro without a glitch. I'd guess it's got 2 hours per day or ~8000 hours on it (almost the equivalent of a full year of 24 hour per day use). From what I'm hearing if it ever breaks I might have to quit.

Nah, you can get em off ebay. Or you can make me an offer on mine. Mine's gameport though

Rolex · « **Reply #54 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:04:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MichaelCHProd
ahhhh the Internet... where everyone gets a chance to slander with no repercussions.

The ONLY thing that ever leaves this factory is NEW product. If it is defective then it comes back here and the offending piece(s) are thrown away. They never go back out to end users. End of story.

Fester/Citbaria your answer is waiting for you at the Hangar. Here is the link... http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4630

Oh come on, Michael. I slandered no one. I said it "appears," including italics, taking into account the fact that everyone has different impressions based on their own experience, and the reduced warranty period for product shipped overseas. I worded it very carefully. I'll send you my address and you can sue me for slander. There are companies that do exactly as I said.

Sorry Michael, but pardon my surprise that you throw away all goods returned under warranty and all product leaving the factory is new (in caps). It's universal practice to break down returned goods to reuse parts, or replace faulty parts and re-ship the product. Bad parts are returned to the supplier for credit. There is nothing wrong with that at all, that is simple manufacturing 101. All that matters is to have a working product.

I know that consumer goods manufacturing is a tough business. What you're seeing here is a message that people are willing to pay a premium price for premium product, but they expect it to be premium, not ordinary. Perhaps there are problems in packaging causing damage, a poor parts supplier or a poor design (like toe brake wiring on pedals) that should be looked at with an eye toward improvement?

End of story for me, too.

MichaelCHProd · « **Reply #55 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:08:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Slash27
Stupid customers and their "opinions". Spend their money for stuff that doesn't work and then have the audacity to complain. Thanks for for helping me make up my mind never to spend a dime on CH products.

If you have defective product then I have no complaints but when you make false accusations about our products then I have an issue. Re-read my quote I fear you might have missed the "used for new" fable started by "Rolex".

If you read the post I made over at the Hangar you will see a detailed articulate answer for the original problem posted by Fester/Citabria.

Still grumpy that I take pride in our product and the service we provide to all of our customers then CH controllers probably aren't what you are looking for.

You will be sorely missed

scottydawg · « **Reply #56 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:23:21 PM »

I'm surprised CH is using an 8-bit decoder for the x and y axis. I would expect a premium product like that to have better electronics than a 1970's era a/d converter.

I know that my Saitek X52 has an 8-bit on the y axis, and it drives me crazy. Damping only fixes part of the problem. The X axis is 16-bit, I'm pretty sure.

Question: Why aren't you guys using something a little more space-age than analog pots hooked to a/d's? Even the Microsoft Sidewinder FFB used LED and IR receivers (I think, but I know they're not pots)... I'd still be using it if it had a separate throttle.

MichaelCHProd · « **Reply #57 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:26:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
and the reduced warranty period for product shipped overseas.

Sorry guy but the warranty is the same if you buy in South Africa or South Carolina.

Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
It's universal practice to break down returned goods to reuse parts, or replace faulty parts and re-ship the product.

It maybe "universal" but that's not how it works here. It is far more cost effective to pitch it. Labor here in the US is NOT cheap so if it will take more than 20min to take apart then it is a waste of time.

Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Bad parts are returned to the supplier for credit.

Bad controllers are returned to us from distributors for credit. Noe one other than the Factory here at CH is authorized to disassemble or repair CH controllers. If you have had dealings with a point of sale that maintains they "fix" our controllers you may what to look for some other point of sale.

Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
What you're seeing here is a message that people are willing to pay a premium price for premium product, but they expect it to be premium, not ordinary.

True, very true... that's why we are this aggressive about our support. If we hear about it then we get right on it. Sometimes we have to find you to fix it. Hello Aces High Forum Account

Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Perhaps there are problems in packaging causing damage, a poor parts supplier or a poor design (like toe brake wiring on pedals) that should be looked at with an eye toward improvement?

Possible but unlikely, Parts mostly come from here but we do check the few that don't, and I did go jump down the QC departments a** when we got the complaint. It was only then that we got deep into the issue and found some of the underlying issues. I then posted these at the Hangar with a simple test procedure to help us move forward to the next step in resolving this issue. But no-one has heard back so I guess I will have to search for our friend Fester/Citabria on another forum

I am not writing a "Holier than Thou" vibe into my posts, it is pride in your job and a serious desire to make sure everybody knows that CH stand behind it's controllers that I am posting.

MichaelCHProd · « **Reply #58 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:29:29 PM »

Scottydawg,

We have some Hall Effect controllers but they are for the Industrial side (currently

) so they are very expensive.

We are also looking at some other positioning technologies but as we do everything here in San Diego it takes a LONG time to find the right fit for us and make it economically viable here State side.

Ghastly · « **Reply #59 on:** May 21, 2007, 07:38:41 PM »

No, the Microsoft Sidewinder and 3D Pro indeed used a "space-age" optical decoder at the base of the handle to determine positioning (except for the rudder axis, which was a pot) which IMHO was the most precise troublefree stick I've ever owned in that regard.

However, both Microsoft FF sticks I had pots that were moved by the motor bands, but must have used some sort of electronic smoothing, because I never experienced any spiking whatsoever with it.

However, I went through 2 of them in little over a year, because the way they designed the hat switch, the right microswitch would "drop out" as the accuator wore down, and they were rediculously difficult to replace.

I feel bad that my own CH stick seems to have worn excessively - I don't feel like I'm heavy handed on sticks - except the POV hat, which I press about 300 times a minute.

Anyway....