What If?

[oy1crazyace]

oy1crazyace

im still for the jeep with the tires

and the b17 with the stero system

that would be sweet  

roll down the windows and make the n00bs listen to themselves dieing over and over =D

and random weird **** like the hampsterdance:t    

[gear]

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Puck
How about non-random?  A P-38 with Merlin engines.  Kelly Johnson had the drawings made for the conversion, and they were available early on.  Wright Patterson specifically FORBADE anyone to put a Merlin in a P38[1], but I'm surprised the British didn't try it.  That's what made the Mustang flyable; imagine what it would have done for the P38...

[1] While this seems arbitrary and capricious, consider for a moment that they could engine two P-51s for every P-38 and the supply of Merlins was not inexhaustible.  The P-38 was also bigger, more expensive to build and operate, and required a larger supply chain than the P-51.  A Merlin P-38 would have almost certainly been "better" than a P-51, but the P-51 was good enough, so why take on the extra expense?

No, Wright Patterson DID NOT forbid a Merlin/P-38 conversion. However, the USAAF felt the P-38 was so critical to the war effort that production delays of even a week or two were not tolerated. So the Merlin P-38 was never going to happen.

Further, putting Merlins in the P-38 would have changed the CG, for the worse, reduced the rate of climb, reduced the range, and hampered high altitude performance. The Merlin is heavier. And makes less horsepower at high altitudes than a turbocharged Allison.

The P-38 with the best engines was actually BUILT and TESTED in 1943. The P-38K, with the higher compression Allison engines capable of higher boost, and equipped with a higher RPM crankshaft, and with Hamilton Standard High Activity Paddle props, was a FAR better aircraft than any Merlin conversion could have ever hoped to be. The new model would have required a short production stoppage of less than two weeks, but the USAAF and the War Production Board denied Lockheed permission to make the swap. The P-38K was superior in performance in almost all areas to anything flying with pistons and a prop in 1943 or 1944. A top speed of around 450MPH. An operating ceiling of over 45,000 feet. A rate of climb superior to nearly anything short of an F8F Bearcat, at an initial climb rate of nearly 4800 feet per minute at MILITARY power, or, from a standing start on the runway to 20,000 feet in 5 minutes flat, in combat trim. An increase of 10% or more in range.

It never ceases to amaze me how everyone assumes Merlins would have made the P-38 better. Far from it.

P-38K

[oy1crazyace]

tis a shame......

[1K3]

It would be scary to fly P-38K at high altitudes.  Nose down a little, once it reaches 450 IAS... compression!

[Serenity]

Ive already got those speakers on my '17... Custom conversion from Boeing for being a loyal customer

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Levier said he could maintain control and recover at Mach .70 or maybe a little better.

The advantage isn't just speed. The ability to climb at that rate, combined with the ability to turn and use the excess HP and prop efficiency to retain energy, even if you're climbing, is where the advantage lies. Straight line speed and diving speed aren't everything, even though they are helpful for escape.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by 1K3
Nose down a little, once it reaches 450 IAS... compression!

Only for those with no clue on how to fly the P-38.  Notice those of us that know how to fly it don't worry about compressability only the n00bs seem to.  *shrug*


ack-ack

[Wes14]

ive never 'compressed' a P-38:confused:

[clerick]

Originally posted by Wes14
ive never 'compressed' a P-38:confused:

You're not trying hard enough

[Kweassa]

Only for those with no clue on how to fly the P-38. Notice those of us that know how to fly it don't worry about compressability only the n00bs seem to. *shrug*

 That's only because the guys who profess to 'know' how to fly P-38s never dive long enough to come down form the Akakosphere to gain enough speed to actually fall under compression. How's anyone ever gonna experience that kind of 'compression' when they don't come down?


 On the other hand, for any reason if the P-38 is really put into a dive in which it reaches more or less close to its terminal velocity, it does fall under a "true" compression in AH. The controls don't respond at all, not even trim. This kind of real compression is however, pretty rare thing to happen in AH, as it requires a lot of altitude and a long, steep downward dive to ever reach that kind of speed.

 Most pilots take measures to prevent that from happening when the frame first starts shaking.

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Kweassa
That's only because the guys who profess to 'know' how to fly P-38s never dive long enough to come down form the Akakosphere to gain enough speed to actually fall under compression. How's anyone ever gonna experience that kind of 'compression' when they don't come down?


 On the other hand, for any reason if the P-38 is really put into a dive in which it reaches more or less close to its terminal velocity, it does fall under a "true" compression in AH. The controls don't respond at all, not even trim. This kind of real compression is however, pretty rare thing to happen in AH, as it requires a lot of altitude and a long, steep downward dive to ever reach that kind of speed.

 Most pilots take measures to prevent that from happening when the frame first starts shaking.

Lawn-Darted my first flight in a '38-L. Was used to my Bf-109, trimming out of any compression... next thing I knew everything was unresponsive, and my wings just flew off...

[TheCage]

That's only because the guys who profess to 'know' how to fly P-38s never dive long enough to come down form the Akakosphere to gain enough speed to actually fall under compression. How's anyone ever gonna experience that kind of 'compression' when they don't come down?

[Viking]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Only for those with no clue on how to fly the P-38.  Notice those of us that know how to fly it don't worry about compressability only the n00bs seem to.  *shrug*


ack-ack

Lol you think you know how to fly a P-38? The real life compressibility vices of the P-38 is hardly modelled in the game at all. AH P-38 is easy mode … in fact all AH planes are. Wouldn’t be much fun for the customer when his favourite plane suddenly nosed down into an inverted dive which could lead to catastrophic structural failure.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Viking
Lol you think you know how to fly a P-38? The real life compressibility vices of the P-38 is hardly modelled in the game at all. AH P-38 is easy mode … in fact all AH planes are. Wouldn’t be much fun for the customer when his favourite plane suddenly nosed down into an inverted dive which could lead to catastrophic structural failure.

Actually, you are, as usual, COMPLETELY wrong. According to Tony Levier, the rest of the Lockheed test pilots, and most of the experienced combat pilots who actually FLEW the plane, compression never occurred below 20,000 feet. Try diving a P-38 in AH, and you'll find that it buffets and refuses to respond to the controls WELL under 20,000 feet. You CAN compress a P-38 in a power on dive below 20,000 feet in AH, something the real pilots said just did not happen.

By the way, you have absolutely NO concept of how compression actually effects a P-38. It does not "suddenly nose down into an inverted dive leading to catastrophic failure". First of all, about 90% of the P-38's lost in terminal compression dives hit the ground intact, according to the accident reports. Second, according to the same reports, about 90% of those accidents were caused by inexperienced pilots who decided to see if they could exceed the placarded speeds. Third, with proper pilot input, the P-38 would recover from a compression dive, provided a panicked pilot who did not know how to recover did not fly it into the ground in error.