Author Topic: Parachute Bombs  (Read 2208 times)

Offline OdinGrunherze

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2007, 10:54:53 AM »
You can't train and lay an 88, the same as a 20mm Flakvierling...
Besides the rate of fire on an 88 in AAmode is about 1 round in 5secs. Thats with a PERFECT crew.... you have to remember that the closure rate of an aircraft at 100ft, moving 350+, is extremely fast.... The guy with the rangefinder has to call the range, then the guy has to fuse the shells.... Just this simple fact made heavy flak ineffective against low level attacks....
Of course it depends on how realistically they model the guns....

OG

Offline frank3

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para-frags
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2007, 11:08:15 AM »
You could even fool the enemy by letting them think they're goons :D

Offline TheCage

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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2007, 02:31:38 PM »
Quote
Had the B25 with parafrags in WB and I can assure you they were absolutely bloody useless.


They also have delayed fuses for the larger bombs, not only that but Fighter Ace has the same thing.  Aces High is the only flight sim that doesn't have it.   As for the 88MM Ack guns, I would like to see them too!  Although they would be useless against low flying bombers that were flying 100 Feet off the deck.   Although more manned ack on the airfield would be a better idea or better airfield ground defense GV's would work too.  As it stands right now, there isn't much ground defense against the high flying bombers unlike the fleets have.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 02:40:04 PM by TheCage »

Offline Warspawn

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2007, 02:57:17 PM »
Just let the '88s use the same fusing system as the 5" guns on the CV's.  If buffs can release ordinance 500' off the deck or Lanc's can divebomb from a 60 degree angle at 400kts onto a CV, then I see no reason not to allow something like that...  :aok
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Offline OdinGrunherze

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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2007, 03:51:06 PM »
5in 45s, and 5in 50s, on naval ships were mounted in power turrets or elec assisted mounts... they also had power ammo feeds.... That gave them a higher rate of fire also....
But the big thing was the Proximity Fuse.... Germans didn't have it!!!!
Big time Hush Hush SECRET.... US Navy had it from late 43 onward... Before that naval AA was almost useless... After that, it was DEADLY.....

I realize that some things have to be "fudged". for the sake of gameplay...

OG

Offline Spikes

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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2007, 06:12:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VooWho
I've posted about parafrags and some like it, and others just hijack my post. :mad:

I am 100% with parafrags. Just think guys of the low bomber missions with B-25s, A20s, and Bostons with parafrags and bombing below radar, tree top flying, screaming across the cities, and then to your target, blowing it up while flying 100ft off the ground, and someone on the other team saying "What a bunch of dumb noobs.....OH CRAP PARAFRAGS...KA-BOOM!

Just think of all the fun we could have. OOOOOO, and if your flying low and you get a spit or la7 on your six and he is low and closing in, drop a parafrag and watch it blow right below him. "HAHAHAHA! I got this low flying A20! BOOOM! "What was tha.....NOOOOOOO!!!!


You don't need them...if you want to hit something low level bring:

Lanstuka with 25% fuel, 14 1000lbs, and carpet bomb it.
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Offline OdinGrunherze

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2007, 06:27:43 PM »
Mr StuKaster. Lancasters and Halifaxes were known to shed their wings while trying to slip away German radar directed spotlights....
So in reality, divebombing with a loaded lancaster would be abject idiocy.
The Lanc should be adjusted to reflect this in the game....

Silly crap like that is worse than a NUKE...

OG

Offline tedrbr

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2007, 08:41:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
5in 45s, and 5in 50s, on naval ships were mounted in power turrets or elec assisted mounts... they also had power ammo feeds.... That gave them a higher rate of fire also....
But the big thing was the Proximity Fuse.... Germans didn't have it!!!!
Big time Hush Hush SECRET.... US Navy had it from late 43 onward... Before that naval AA was almost useless... After that, it was DEADLY.....

I realize that some things have to be "fudged". for the sake of gameplay...

Been discussed in other 88mm FlaK36 threads.  The thing with the 88's, they were used in large numbers with central fire controls in the AA role -- central fire control they would get the speed, direction, and altitude of an enemy formation through optical, range-finding, and radar inputs, and transmit to the gun positions the necessary data.  Quick fuse setting and laying of the gun.  Boom.  It was pretty accurate, if you've ever seen video and pics of Allied bombers over German territory with a carpet of flak all around them co alt.

For game purposes you can go two ways:
Model the timed fuse and a very good targeting system to give the gunner the altitude, range, and speed of a target (which is much more than we get now), and tie the fuse setting into, say, the throttle setting when in a deployed position.
Or, make use of the existing code for 5 inch guns and autoflak for simplicity.  End result is the same.  Boom.  Just one takes a lot more work to implement.

I'd settle for flak built on the existing 5 inch code to save them the trouble of a whole new sight and target system to code, the end effect is close enough.  If your aim is off a bit, your round won't detonate as it would with a timed fuse.  oh well.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 08:44:47 PM by tedrbr »

Offline badhorse

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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2007, 09:14:07 PM »
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Originally posted by VooWho
Just think guys of the low bomber missions


While I am not completely opposed to the idea, the idea of even more Lanc-stukas, B26-stukas, B17-stukas, etc. makes me shudder.
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Offline OdinGrunherze

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2007, 09:53:44 PM »
You are perfectly correct about the german fire direction system....It was as good as it gets, without the proxi fuse....
As far as the game goes... It would be cool to force the player to choose his fuse times for altitude, with a stereoscopic rangefinder.... That would make skill and practice necessary for good accuracy. And slave a Bn of guns to one director.... Perfect!!!
My only real concern is that 88mm machine guns don't start appearing everywhere, LOL!!!

OG

Offline OdinGrunherze

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2007, 10:37:30 PM »
Sorry the thread drifted off of the main topic... But I was just goin with the flow, ya know!!!
I know there are many people on this BB who know their stuff as well as I do, some even better.... I've studied my share, and have a full library of WW2 literature etc.... It's just a pleasure to yak with people who have the same morbid fetish for WW2 stuff.....

OG

Offline VooWho

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2007, 06:52:28 AM »
I'll help put it back on topic.


para......frags.......any.... ...one?
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Offline Sketch

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2007, 12:26:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
OK, high drag if you like... But those poor grungy odinance guys on the fields around Port Moresby, (who first started using them) called em parafrags. They were an improv field modification, just like the "gun noses" on the light and medium bombers... They were so effective at destroying Japanese airfields around Buna, Wewak, New Britain, etc, that the factories started building them at home...
Those were the early desperate days of the war.... Our guys in the SoPac were on a shoestring, and had to make do with what they had....
They came up with the most devastating form of attack yet invented....
But High drag works too...

OG


Your giving a history lesson on ordnance to a guy that builds bombs everyday in the military....  No offense is taken or ment to you on that either.  But like many  have said, no 'special' bombs will be in the game.  Which yes sucks to a certain extent, but I understand why.
I do remember the days of them in WB's like Lynx said, and yes they were useless.  The only good was for the fireworks.
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Offline Sketch

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2007, 12:27:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VooWho
I'll help put it back on topic.


para......frags.......any.... ...one?


Could you spell it out for me.... I got lost.... :huh
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Offline CFYA

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Parachute Bombs
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2007, 01:31:35 PM »
Why no special ord?

Since when is a incendiary bomb special? They only used 40 bazillion or so.

Whats the defition of special?

Anything none GP?

PS The auto ack wont shoot at bombs. There are ways to stop gaming the game.

Bombers are for the most part ignored other than the fact that they are present and fulfill a need to fighters.

Sad but true facts..........I bet "special" bombs would get used more than half the hangar queens. And it would be terribly easy to coad compared to say a plane.

I have stopped flying buffs because its TOO easy and boring. Id love to low level bomb a city!

CFYA