Author Topic: What WW2 ace do you look up to?  (Read 12733 times)

Offline Karnak

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2007, 07:56:37 PM »
BaDkaRmA158Th,

How old are you?

You seem to look at things in a very black and white fashion. That is an adolescent way of seeing things.  In adult views things are shades of grey and circumstances change an action's appropriateness.

Further, soldiers are only murderers when they kill civilians intentionally or enemy soldiers who are trying to surrender.

This is precise.

Why?

Because murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another human being.

Therefor when one soldier kills an enemy soldier who was not surrendering he or she is not murdering that person as it is a lawful killing.


That is why people who kill somebody in self defense are not considered murderers either, because those killings are lawful.
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Offline Bosco123

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2007, 09:45:37 PM »
BaDKaMa158Th,
what is your problem? they only killed eachother for the simple reason is that what they had to do. you join the military today and you go over there and you have some guy tring to kill you with an explosive bomb attached to his waist, trieng to kill you because your on the wrong side? no sir, I called that self defence. and they are called heroes because they "murderd" a few people, no they are heroes becuse they did what was right for their country.
I am 14 and am currently reading a book called "My Men Are My Heroes" I sugjest  that you read it. it talks about a man named SGT. MAJ.(sargent major) Cassel a naval man who got the naval cross for going into a building with only a pistol got shot about 5 times and still "murderd" people. he got it for that reason. but you'll never know what it will be like for people that you don't even know look up to you becuse you think killing is mudering people. and if your ever in that perdiciment and you become a POW they will call it a "war crime" not murder. so next time you say somthing like that talk to all the medal of honor recipiants or naval cross and ask them what they think now that they are the hero. learn your facts
Skifurd AKA "Bosco"
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Offline Guppy35

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2007, 11:07:50 PM »
Any excuse to post this picture.

Outside of my marriage and my kids, probably the most memorable event of my life, getting to be a part of the reunion of 41 Squadron at RAF Coltishall in 1985.

Classiest bunch of folks I've ever met and an "ace' every one.  The Spit XII pilots of 41 Squadron with some dweeb allowed in the picture.

While I fly 38s in AH, these guys are my heros.  I'll forever feel privilaged to have gotten to meet them and to know some of them well.  Sadly most are gone now.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Masherbrum

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2007, 11:13:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VVV
I really look up to David McCampbell who had 34 Aerial victories and he also shot down 7 aircraft in one day in the "Marianas Turkey Shoot".

Erich Hartmann would have to be my second.

McCampbell got 9 victories that day.  He also kept score on his dash.
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2007, 11:15:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.

And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.

Just because you can justify something will never make it right.

"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?

and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.

Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.

What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"

Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.

:aok
Sure thing teenager.   Buy a Dictionary, some may take you seriously next time.    You're a tool.
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Offline Shifty

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2007, 11:31:17 PM »
Nice pic Dan!:aok

JG-11"Black Hearts"...nur die Stolzen, nur die Starken

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Offline 1Duke1

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #66 on: May 25, 2007, 11:38:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.

And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.

Just because you can justify something will never make it right.

"you killed my brother there for that grants me right to slaughter every member of your family."
understand?


and looking upto someone because they killed more people!?
you are nuts, did you ever think most pilots hoped to holy hell the people they shot down made it out alive?
any soldier or pilot preys for peace, because it is them who suffers most.
for the taking of life.
Period.

Now i do not begrudge these people, im just trying to hit two sides of the coin here.



What is amazing is how these people found a way to live past the war with taking life without enough guilt to blow themselfs away.
"and many did,however unknown to there friends/family/community/country"



Life IS such.
Bu|| $|-|17 your selfs otherwise all you want.


:aok


You sir are a ****ing idiot.  Have a nice day:aok
Duke

Offline ghi

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2007, 11:59:37 PM »
1,----

Hans Ulrich Rudel

- logged 2,530 combat missions,

victories;

518+ Tanks
700 Trucks
150+ Flak and Artillery positions
9 Fighter/Ground Attack Aircraft
Hundreds of bridges, railway lines, bunkers, etc.
Battleship October Revolution, Cruiser Marat, and 70 landing craft

 was shot down 32 times, but survieved the war died in "80s


 2,

 Constantin M, Cantacuzino   (Linda Grey 's father), 56 victories

Offline Sloehand

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2007, 03:06:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Tell you what, if i was put into the position to kill people, and 80 years later some dip **** looks upto me for my deed,ill call him a retard.

And like i said before,you can justify it anyway you want,the rule is the rule.
you TAKE life,you are murder.
does not matter if the life you took WAS a murderer.


I really hate moral cowards and hypocrites like this guy.  You can extrapolate from what he said that it would be beneath him to defend his family, friends or country if it might require killing another person, as it would jeopardize his spiritual well-being. And on top of that, he has to spout off, essentially calling every soldier who defended his country in WWII a criminal murderer.

It's obvious he would be perfectly happy to let someone else do the dirty work and carry the guilt should ever the need arise to defend his family by taking an evil life.  Or, maybe the magic fairy will appear, wave her wand, and make all the big, bad guys go away.  Next stop, La La Land.

He is also a sanctimonious fool, who tries to live in his perfect world while he preaches to everyone else how terrible our parents and grandparents were in protecting that which they cherished and did not wish to see crushed by a truely immorl and evil force.  He's happy to condemn those who, realizing the often imperfect and sometimes cruel world they and we live in, were willing to try to improve that world by defending home, family and country.  These heroes regretfully accepted the burden of guilt and personal consequences in taking a life, however justified.  With the only unperishable spirit of youth to briefly shield them, they did not, and today's heroes do not, avoid this responsibility by hiding behind a fallacious moral high ground as he does.

I hope someday he realizes BEFORE it actually happens, what the true and greater spiritual and moral damage will incur if someone he loves is slaughtered because he could not bring himself to take a life even in justifiable defence.

"Rage, Rage, come to me as a storming torrent, that I might lash unto death those who desecrate my blood, body and soul.  

Lift my fist to strike in justice, those who scour my bloodline from this beloved land.  

Whip tears from my eyes and give me stone for a heart, to break all evil upon it.  

Let me revel not in vile deeds, nor suffer the honor or kindness of men this day.

Rage come to me! For I am the whirlwind Death, and I go to smite with thee!"
Jagdgeschwader 77

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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Offline Bruv119

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2007, 03:11:53 AM »
Saburo Sakai's book is still the best one i have read so far.

And of course any member of "The Few" who stood alone.  They are my heroes.



Bruv
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Offline Sloehand

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« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2007, 03:19:23 AM »
On topic, foremost I admire Chenault for his intelligence and leadership and all the AVG pilots who fought their aircraft's advantages brilliantly and against great odds, as underdogs for a little respected people in dire need.  Talk about outnumbered and alone!

And, though I don't remember his name from the "Dogfight" series, the pilot of the SBD (TBM?) who was forced to take on multiple Zero's in a supremely non-fighter aircraft.  He was cool, self-assured (not cocky) and unshakeable, with IMMENSE patience, nerve and tactical savvy.
Jagdgeschwader 77

"You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm."  - George Orwell
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Offline Obie303

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« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2007, 03:51:26 AM »
I guess I would have to say some of the most amazing stories I've read have been from the pilots with the Polish Air Force.  Pilots like Gabreski, Skalski, Gladych, Urbanowicz, and Zumbach to name a few that come to mind.  The highest scoring squadron was the 303 Kosciuszko Squadron during the Battle of Britian.  A couple of fantastic books are "A Question of Honor" by Stanley Cloud & Lynn Olsen and "The Forgotten Few" by Adam Zamoyski.  (I could go on for a while but I'll let those who want to read more decide for themselves).

Urbanowicz in particular, has an amazing story.  He is the only pilot that had flown for three (3) air forces.  The Polish, British, and American forces.  Urbanowicz is also the the only allied pilot that flew with the Flying Tigers.  Urbanowicz had three (3) confirmed victories with the Tigers and finished the war with a total of 20 ariel victories.  

I do admit that I'm partial to reading about the Polish pilots because I had a great uncle (Jan Obuchowski) who flew with the French in 1940.  The squadron was I/145.  He was shot down and died in a Caudron 714 on June 10, 1940.

In all, I would say that any man that had the courage to jump into a cockpit and face amazing odds, not knowing if they would return, has my respect.


Obie:aok
I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
I have kept the faith.
(quote on a Polish pilot's grave marker in Nottinghamshire, England)

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Offline 1K3

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2007, 04:29:48 AM »
"Pipz" Priller

Certified Spit-killer (68) from start to finish while flying the Fw 190:p

Offline Bosco123

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« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2007, 08:20:57 AM »
obie303,
 who cares if you are reading about a bunch of poloks. I am a polok myself! I have not read much abut these guys but it would be neat to read about them
Skifurd AKA "Bosco"
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Offline bj229r

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What WW2 ace do you look up to?
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2007, 08:50:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Obie303
I guess I would have to say some of the most amazing stories I've read have been from the pilots with the Polish Air Force.  Pilots like Gabreski, Skalski, Gladych, Urbanowicz, and Zumbach to name a few that come to mind.  The highest scoring squadron was the 303 Kosciuszko Squadron during the Battle of Britian.  A couple of fantastic books are "A Question of Honor" by Stanley Cloud & Lynn Olsen and "The Forgotten Few" by Adam Zamoyski.  (I could go on for a while but I'll let those who want to read more decide for themselves).

Urbanowicz in particular, has an amazing story.  He is the only pilot that had flown for three (3) air forces.  The Polish, British, and American forces.  Urbanowicz is also the the only allied pilot that flew with the Flying Tigers.  Urbanowicz had three (3) confirmed victories with the Tigers and finished the war with a total of 20 ariel victories.  

I do admit that I'm partial to reading about the Polish pilots because I had a great uncle (Jan Obuchowski) who flew with the French in 1940.  The squadron was I/145.  He was shot down and died in a Caudron 714 on June 10, 1940.

In all, I would say that any man that had the courage to jump into a cockpit and face amazing odds, not knowing if they would return, has my respect.


Obie:aok


Heh, ya stole my thunder. Robert Johnson is up there for me, but Mike Gladych was a human wrecking ball in the P47--he escaped from a Romanian prison camp, flew with some fellow Poles in France, got to Britain after France fell, flew spits, then ended up with the 56th flying jugs--Johnson says the guy so hated Germans that he witnessed him trying to RAM an enemy fighter after he (Gladych) ran out of ammo, lol what an animal---he survived the war, had a few planes shot out from under him. Would loved to have been able to meet the guy

http://members.chello.be/kurt.weygantt/worldwariiaces.index.html_boleslaw_mike_gladych.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boles%C5%82aw_G%C5%82adych
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