Rudder Pedals vs. twisty stick

[Widewing]

Much depends upon what you are used to.. I've used twisty sticks, rudder rockers (X45) and CH pedals. I prefer the pedals for several reasons.

The drawback to twisties is that a lot of pilots inadvertently rotate their hand when in combat. This causes unwanted rudder displacement, which kills speed and cross-controls the airplane. It takes practice and some awareness to avoid this. Bighorn2 is a top pilot and he uses a twisty stick. Others at his level use pedals. It's all a matter of what works best for you.

One important point... Spending $100 for pedals carries some risk that you will not like the pedals. So, if a twisty works for you, then put off the investment, or buy a used set off of EBay or from another player. At least if you don't like the pedals, you haven't spent $100 to learn that.

My regards,

Widewing

[wetrat]

Peds won't help you at first, but there's a lot of stuff you can pull off much more easily if you have them. It can be difficult to fly hard and add the rudder you need with a twisty stick... you're much more prone to make a mistake. I used a twisty stick until about a year ago, and did just fine for those 4 years. They're not a necessity, but if it's in your budget, go for it.

[oldtard]

I use  the Saitek X-52 system i do not have rudder peddles but i did lock the twisty stick(I found in combat i was twisting the rudders by mistake).
What i use as rudders is the hat switch(left of the B firirng button)
I could be wrong but seems to me that it responds 2X as quick as the twisty.
As soon as can can afford rudder peddles i am getting them ,but until then i will keed using the hat switch,takes a little to get used to it but maybe it will work for you also GL.

OLD42
~THE UNFORGIVIN~

[SKJohn]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
That's wrong.  

. . .I don't recommend CH Pedals, though.  I have a pair and they're far closer together than an airplane's pedals should be.  They're about four inches apart, where a real airplanes should be perhaps eighteen inches apart.  Saitek's pedals look much more like it.

I defintely prefer pedals over twisty, but then I learned to fly real a/c long before I learned to fly AH. so it seems more "natural" to me.

re: CH vs Saitek pedals - I used to have the CH Pro pedals, but they kept developing  a short or spiking problem.  As I use the Saitek X45 HOTAS, when Saitek came out with their pedals, I bought a pair and have been totally satisfied with them.  As mentioned earlier, they are about 8 inches wider than the CH pedals, closer to the "real a/c pedals distance.  Being a big guy, I find that extra 8 in. to add a lot in the comfort in using them.  WIth the CH pedals, I always felt like I was having to squeeze my legs together to use them.  They also have adjustable tension, altough I turned the tension on mine all the way up just to have a little resistance that I can feel on them.

[duddini]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to scrape up the $$ and go for pedals, if nothing else they seem like they would be more "realistic" (for a game played at home, in air conditioning, sitting in a comfy chair in front of a 'puter ).
 
  Now the question is: CH or Saitek pedals ?

Thanks again for all the info, these boards are an awesome place to come for info/opinions.

[Benny Moore]

As SKJohn mentioned, CH Products controllers are not durable; the wiring comes loose or the potentiometers fail about once a year.  I've used CH Products joystick and pedals for about five years, and every year I've had to send them back for repair.  While I love the joystick, I'm not so fond of the pedals for the spiking (as well as for the smallness which PKJohn and I've explained).  I plan on getting another Combatstick when mine breaks for good, but if my pedals break I'm switching to Saitek pedals.

I've never used Saitek pedals, but I recommend going with Saitek pedals all the same.  But I recommend a CH joystick—if you're willing to ship them to California for fifteen dollars every year (it's about a month wait on average, too).  Saitek joysticks are more durable than CH, but they're not quite as precise.

One more thing—be certain that you have enough room under your desk.  With pedals, you need to have them not only directly in front of you, but also far enough away from you that you can use them effectively.  But you also must be close enough to your desk to hold your joystick.  I personally am having a nightmare of an ergonomics problem, between my monitor, joystick, pedals, and TrackIR.

In order for my joystick to not smack the monitor when I roll left hard, I have to keep it so far to the right that I have to hunch over to use it.  On the other hand my legs are sort of cramped so I can be close enough to use my joystick.  Being in position to use my joystick means I'm off center for my TrackIR, so I kind of have to look at the monitor out of the corner of my eye a bit, which causes eyestrain.

All this is after I painstakingly measured my desk, chair, pedals, and TrackIR and centered them.  I also raised my monitor.  Anyway, I'm sure I've bored you with me woes; I just want you to be sure your desk can support your equipment.  If not, you may also need to save up for a new desk.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Even though majority of the joysticks have badly implemented twisty control, it  makes helluva more sense, at least from ergonomical point of view, than pedals.

Wrong.

It makes worse sense, and you'll find this out when you use a twisty stick for 5+ years like I did.

I got good. I got very good. I could make all the instant snapshots. I could pull the proper angle to get my kill.

That was just me learning to overcome the problems, that doesn't make it efficient or ergonomic.

The problem with a twisty is that you have to twist WHILE coordinating up/down and left/right, and depending on the way you bank or climb you also have to twist, and the very nature of twisting forces motion into the other axes. Your "twist" is hinged on your wrist, NOT the center of the stick, so there's motion forced onto the left/right up/down directions even if you just want to twist. Conversely, if you're trying to hold a bank and lead on a target, adding a bit of rudder to correct aim or slip is harder. If you are right-handed, adding left rudder is even worse! Especially if you're banked right and just need a nudge left to get that kill shot!

I switched to old analog rudder pedals. They don't even slide like real pedals (or like CH Pro pedals) they just depress like gas brakes. They're much better than twisty sticks. Not only can I get better aim, I find myself coordinating a lot of moves that I would never have done in twisty-stick-use. I correct slip a lot more (and effortlessly so), and I can zoom better and perform better hammerhead or near-stall manuvers in the vertical.

The reason it's better is because you're not screwing yourself over by messing up the other 2 axes when you want to use the 3rd. Imagine if the throttle were mounted on the side of the stick itself, and to adjust it you'd have to reach up and press into the stick (and mess up whatever you're doing) then imagine trying to hold aim with bank, pitch, rudder, and adjust your throttle. You're SOL. Then imagine the throttle on the base of the stick, or separate from the stick. MUCH better. Because it doesn't interfere at all.

Twisty sticks interfere. Pedals don't. That alone makes them much better.


The retraining period is a b****, though. Takes many months to relearn how to fly.

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by Krusty
The retraining period is a b****, though. Takes many months to relearn how to fly.

That's why it's important to never learn twist.  I went straight from real airplane to CH Pedals, and while gaming controllers are greatly inferior and more difficult than real airplane controls, it was a much quicker adaptation than if I'd used a flawed controller for a long time.

[Krusty]

I don't think it's important "NEVER" to learn twisty. It helps. Especially if you came from other games that used it. However, I agree that even if you overcome the problems, you still are handicapping yourself.

If you can't afford pedals, then twisty will "git 'er done".

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by duddini
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to scrape up the $$ and go for pedals, if nothing else they seem like they would be more "realistic" (for a game played at home, in air conditioning, sitting in a comfy chair in front of a 'puter ).
 
  Now the question is: CH or Saitek pedals ?

Thanks again for all the info, these boards are an awesome place to come for info/opinions.

I'd recommend the CH Pro Pedals.  They've fixed the wiring problem on the pedals that caused the spikes and generally they do make an excellent product.

On my other gaming machine I still have my first CH gear installed and they are over 10 years old.  During that time, I've only had to change the potentiometers once on my Pro Throttle.  On my main gaming machine, I have the CH USB HOTAS setup, which I've had for 4 years and they have yet to fail on me.


ack-ack

[Scotch]

Pedals are definitely better!

I've had mine for a month now. And while my stats this tour took a hit because of the learning curve, I'm pretty well acclimated to them now and feel much more confident with them in a duel than with twist control.

I suggest doing some more research outside of this board to get a little better sense of CH vs Saitek etc. But CH gear on average is rock solid. And if you happen to have something break, new stuff comes with a great warranty. Mine is covered for the next 3 years.  And through Provantage.com I ended up paying less for the CH gear than what most comparable Saitek stuff costs.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Krusty
Wrong.

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Using twisty or pedals comes down to personal preference and either will do the trick.

[B@tfinkV]

quote:
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Using twisty or pedals comes down to personal preference and either will do the trick.
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[Krusty]

Bighorn, your statement seems to imply there is no difference between the two. There is as much difference between using twisty and using pedals, as there is between using keyboard and using twisty.

Yours implies there's no difference, and it's only what the player likes.

When I typed "wrong" I was pointing out there is an advantage to using the pedals. If you cannot, then twisty "will do" -- same as if you don't have a twisty, the keyboard "will do" (or just don't use rudder at all).

Doesn't mean that it's up to personal preference, because almost everybody here will tell you using the keyboard for rudder is wrong, even if you prefer to.

That's all I had to say. Sorry if I stepped on your toes.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Krusty
Yours implies there's no difference, and it's only what the player likes.

In order to have a preference at all, there has to be a difference.

All I'm saying is there's no results of any controlled test which would prove that using one over another would give you any significant advantage in this game, especially when it comes to learning ACM.

Unless you come up with hard instead of only perceived evidence, I'll stick with my statement.