Rudder Pedals vs. twisty stick

[duddini]

Let me start by saying I know my biggest problem is an extreme lack of skill

But I was wondering if a set of CH rudder pedals might help me to get better just a little faster. Right now I have a Saitek stick with a twist handle for the rudders, but it just doesn't seem intuitive at all. I've read where adding rudder helps with roll rate among other things, but I forget about it in the heat of trying to survive. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks all

[The Fugitive]

I never flew with a twisty stick. I either used the keypad, or as soon as I could afford them pedals My first set was a pair that I made, other than being a bit small, they worked ok. But as soon as I could, I bought CH pedals.

Will it help you fly better, not right off. Later you might use them to advantage by not adding rudder when you don't want to like you "could" while yanking on your stick.

About the pnly thing that will make up for lack of skill is practice. Get with some trainers and learn from them. The more information you can get into your head, while still understanding it, the better!

Then, PRACTICE !!

[2bighorn]

The only thing getting you there faster is the time invested and your learning capabilities.

Using twisty or pedals comes down to personal preference and either will do the trick.

[Optiker]

But I was wondering if a set of CH rudder pedals might help me to get better just a little faster. Right now I have a Saitek stick with a twist handle for the rudders, but it just doesn't seem intuitive at all. I've read where adding rudder helps with roll rate among other things, but I forget about it in the heat of trying to survive. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks all

Duddini,
I started (Last October) with a twisty stick and got to a point where I could control my plane reasonably well with it. I made the switch to a set of pedals abt a month ago and am still having a hard time with the adjustment. When I have the time to thing about what I'm trying to do, the pedals work much better than the twisty stick but IMHO they are much less instinctive than the twisty stick. The pedals allow for much better control, and separation from cross-talking the controls (inadvertent rudder application by unaware/unintended twist of the joystick), but a relatively short period of flying with a twisty stick will pretty much cement the concept - where it's been many hours before the pedals have (will) become natural.

Regards,
Optiker

[Bruv119]

I got some for xmas.

I played with a twist stick for 7 years.  Pedals make a nice difference in snapshots,  Controlled stalls, rolls and taxiing.

It gives you that slight bit more immersion and I would say get them if you can afford it.

Basically you get a wider range of motion = more control.

Bruv
~S~

[NitroFish]

I learned with a twisty then went to pedals. It takes a bit of time to get used to the pedals but it is worth it. Gunnery improved the greatest for me, I found the pedals easier to get the guns on target.

[lengro]

This month marks my first year with AH2 - the first 7 months with twist-stick. At that point it was completly natural for me to use the twist function - didnt even think about it, just did it when needed.

When I got my pedals I was forced to be aware of the rudder function, it did not feel natural at all - often I would forget my legs and lock the rudder in a ackward position.

Recently I have again reached that point where I dont think about the rudder in a close turnfight - I just do it per instinct.

But - I dont know if I today would fly different if I had stayed with the twisty-stick.
What I do know is that the pedals for a long period forced me to be more analytic about how my axis movements affected the plane.
I also tend to believe that the greater travel of the pedals gives me more room for precise rudder movements.

And lastly, I have more fun with pedals -  this-is-how-a-ww2-bird-is-supposed-to-be-flown-sense just increase the immersion for me

oh - by the way - if you sit in an office chair with wheels (like I do) find a way to block it, or you are in for a surprise first time you push the pedals

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
Using twisty or pedals comes down to personal preference and either will do the trick.

That's wrong.  There's a very, very good reason why real aircraft all use pedals and not twist sticks.

Pedals offer much more precision.  Not only do they not not tend to move when you move the stick (as does a twist stick), but since their range of motion is many times that of a twist stick, you can utilize much more of your potentiometers' accuracy.

For instance, if you move your twist stick half an inch, that's a full fourth of your  axis.  If you move your pedals half an inch, however, that's only about a twentieth of your axis.  Therefore, a half-inch error (or any movement) on a twist stick will be very noticeable and drastic, being a 25% error.  A half-inch error on pedals will not be noticeable or drastic at all, being only a 5% error.  Imagine if your automobile had a wheel that was only four inches across and only went around 90 degrees.  You'd be in an accident in no time.

I don't recommend CH Pedals, though.  I have a pair and they're far closer together than an airplane's pedals should be.  They're about four inches apart, where a real airplanes should be perhaps eighteen inches apart.  Saitek's pedals look much more like it.

[StuB]

I flew AW (and early AH) for 8 years with rudder pedals.  After my 5 year break, I found that  had to buy new flight gear because none of my stuff was USB.  I bought a Saitek Av8tor, which is a twisty stick. I found that I was struggling with the twist rudder and that it was hard to both twist my wrist and operate the hat switch, etc. at the same time.

I went and got a "game port to USB" converter and got my CH pedals working again.  I am much happier now.  It definately makes it easier for me to maintain control than just using the twisty stick.

I still suck, but it's good to remove any factor that contributes to it whenever possible.  

Originally posted by duddini
Let me start by saying I know my biggest problem is an extreme lack of skill

But I was wondering if a set of CH rudder pedals might help me to get better just a little faster. Right now I have a Saitek stick with a twist handle for the rudders, but it just doesn't seem intuitive at all. I've read where adding rudder helps with roll rate among other things, but I forget about it in the heat of trying to survive. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks all

[Benny Moore]

I'll do my part to dispell the myth, but I gave up trying to persuade people to use pedals.  It's not as if I'll lose anything if they use twist sticks instead; they'll be that much easier for me to shoot down.  If they lack the common sense to make the connection between real airplane controls and gaming controllers, then they deserve to have a hard time flying (especially when people who have flown real aircraft explain it and are ignored).

So, yeah, hold on to your twist sticks, suckers.  I'll see you in the skies.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
That's wrong.  There's a very, very good reason why real aircraft all use pedals and not twist sticks.

Mechanically, it was very impractical, sometimes impossible, to attach all controls to a single stick or yoke. That was the reason.

Ever since fly by wire became common in aircraft, trend was to move stick from center to the side, limit its movement (pressure touch stick), and if unmanned craft give us some more time, twisty will find it's way into cockpit as well.

Comanche, although not fixed wing aircraft, was first using twisty stick for yaw control.

Even though majority of the joysticks have badly implemented twisty control, it  makes helluva more sense, at least from ergonomical point of view, than pedals.

Look at the top AH sticks and you'll find fair share of twisty users...

[Benny Moore]

Those aircraft practically fly themselves.  The F-16, the only current U.S. fighter to use a small digital joystick, has a full authority fly-by-wire system, with an angle of attack limiter that the pilot cannot override (except by holding down a switch, only done in the case of a deep stall).  Very precise motion isn't necessary with an angle of attack limiter and a computer that is constantly assisting your control movements.  And note that the F-16 still has pedals, in spite of its full fly-by-wire.

But whatever.  Again, it's your funeral.  Believe me, or don't.  Benny is done.

[BaldEagl]

I've been using the same MS Sidewinder 3D Pro twisty for 11 years now.  It's completely natural to me.  

There is a disadvantage though and that's inadvertant rudder application while using elevators or ailerons in flight or inadvertant elevator or aileron application while taxiing.  It happens but it's not a big issue.

[2bighorn]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
So, yeah, hold on to your twist sticks, suckers.  I'll see you in the skies.

But whatever. Again, it's your funeral. Believe me, or don't. Benny is done.

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[lengro]

Originally posted by 2bighorn
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lol - I am very happy that you help me with my flying and not my drawing