First use of 'rockets' by the western allies in the MTO

[Wotan]

Anyone have any information? I am particularly interested if P-38Gs and Spitfire IXs were carrying 'rockets' during July - Sept '43 (Sicily - Italy). What's the first variant of P-38 to carry rockets? The data I have have is for the G-10.

Thanks,

[Guppy35]

Don't believe they used rockets prior to 44.  Spits first used them in the ETO in late 44 I believe.  I think the bazooka rocket tubes on the 38s wasn't until 44 in the CBI.  None of the group histories I have show rockets used by MTO 38s.

I can confirm the Spit dates when i get home from work.

Hurri IVs had the rockets in the MTO in 44-45.  RAF Mustangs also carried them at that point.

[Furball]

I think the Hurricane IV was carrying RP's in mid/late 1943.

I dont know about the Spits or P-38s.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Furball
I think the Hurricane IV was carrying RP's in mid/late 1943.

I dont know about the Spits or P-38s.

First Rocket attack by a Hurricane was July 29, 1943 over the channel against shipping.

Spits wings weren't set up for the rockets until the strengthened E-wing.  As near as I can tell the first use by Spits wasn't until late in 44 on the continent.


Again, as near as I can determine the bazooka tube rockets on P38s weren't used until early 44 in the CBI and the rocket tree's on 38s did not see action in the ETO/MTO only in the Pacific late in the war with limited success.

RAF MTO Mustangs got rocket rails in early 45.

So it appears there were no rocket equipped RAF or USAAF birds in the MTO in July 43

[Wotan]

Thanks guys...

I got a similar answer on another forum. I think its safe to say the through July - Sept '43 that no rockets were in use over Sicily / Italy.

[Angus]

Would think so.
Just eggs.

[Karnak]

First Mossie use of rockets that I recall off hand is in 1944, the second half if I recall and then used against shipping in the baltic and around Norway.

[Furball]

Italy

This was perhaps the Hurricane IV’s greatest showcase. Two squadrons; No’s 6 and 351 did amazing amounts of damage to German forces in Northern Italy, Yugoslavia, Greece and the Adriatic (anti shipping strikes). No 6 Sq started out as part of normal RAF operations in Italy, but became part of the Balkan airforce primarily in support of Tito’s partisans in Yugoslavia. Its Hurricanes flew in the standard RAF day fighter colours as described above. An example was KZ188, which had RP’s, a Volks filter and the usual markings, C1 fuselage and under wing roundels, yellow leading edges, Sky fuselage band, Code C in Sky on the fuselage, but less commonly late war C1 roundels on the upper wings replacing the B type more commonly used. This change is more usually associated with NW Europe, where it is common on such late war types as Tempest V’s, Spitfire XIV’s and Meteor III’s. Few people associate the Hurricane with surviving this long in combat! Another example in use at the same time (April 1945) had no code, Type B wing roundels, serial was possibly LE840.

The unit started operations in Italy with the Mk IV in February 1944, after much use with Mk IId’s among other Hurricanes on ground attack work in N Africa. Having flown such famous examples of the IId as BP188 (codes JX*Z). The initial base was Fayid, then to Grottagalie for operations until July 44, the to Fogia until Aug 44, the to Canne until Mar 45, then Vis and Prkos. With detachments at various bases in Yugoslavia and Greece.

Examples of its hurricane IV’s KX178 – B, LB683 – Y, LF482 – C and KZ187 – X. Hurricane Mk IIc’s were operated along side the Mk IV’s, presumably to give some escorts for the lumbering Mk IV’s.

No 6 Sq was joined by No 351 Yugoslavia Squadron in July 1944 and the units shared bases and targets for much of the rest of the war until with the wars end it was absorbed into the newly reformed Yugoslavian airforce in June 1945. Shared bases included Canne and Prkos. An example of its Mk IV’s was LB886, which was again in standard RAF day fighter colours with the exception of special Yugoslavian communist markings of a red star imposed over a modified RAF roundel, with a lot of white and only a narrow surround of yellow. The tail bars had a wide white portion, compared to the late war narrow one of RAF aircraft with a red star in the white portion. Its code was a white O, serial remained black and the aircraft had a Volks filter and RP armament. The unit was often ably assisted by its sister unit 352 Sq flying Spitfire Mk Vc’s.

Other Hurricane IV’s included; KX800, LD 975 – also O, LF507 and LE570. Yugoslavian markings are available in Hasegawa’s Mk IIc kit in 1/72nd.

No 6 ended the Hurricane IV story in 1947, when its last aircraft were replaced by Tempest Mk VI in Cyprus. 10 years of Hurricane operations with the RAF ended, replaced by Camm's later masterpiece.

[Wotan]

Furball any word on Hurricane IIb/c/d squadrons flying in support of Husky, invasion of Italy (July - Sept 43)?

TIA

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Wotan
Furball any word on Hurricane IIb/c/d squadrons flying in support of Husky, invasion of Italy (July - Sept 43)?

TIA

Don't believe any of the Hurricane squadrons were flying front line support at that point.

[Furball]

The Desert Air Force had Hurricanes, and i know that they supported Operation Husky from Malta, i am not sure what aircraft they used actually over Sicily.  From what i can tell most of the Hurricanes were sent to Egypt.

23rd October 1942 the DAF had: -

No.212 Group
  ============

   243th Wing
   No.1 SAAF Sq (16x Hurricane IIc)
   No.33 Sq (16x Hurricane IIc)
   No.213 Sq (16x Hurricane IIb)
   No.238 Sq (16x Hurricane IIb)

   7th SAAF Wing
   No.80 Sq (16x Hurricane IIc)
   No.127 Sq (16x Hurricane IIb)
   No.335 Sq (16x Hurricane IIb)
   No.274 Sq (16x Hurricane IIb)

http://www.mts.net/~royb/units_middle_east_1942.html

[Guppy35]

Back to the July 29, 1943 order of battle from the book mentioned in the post about Spits etc.

AHQ Malta

73 Squadron  Hurricanes


Northwest African Air Forces

211 Group
6 Squadron SAAF  Hurricanes

Tactical Bomber Force
241 Squadron  Hurricanes

North African Coastal Air Force
253 Squadron  Hurricanes
32 Squadron  Hurricanes
87 Squadron  Hurricanes

HQ Air Defences Eastern Med
No 127 Squadron  Hurricanes

210 Group
3 Squadron SAAF  Hurricanes
33, 213, 274 Squadrons   Hurricanes


212 Group
7 SAAF, 41 SAAF, 94, 123, 134, 237 Squadrons  Hurricanes

219 Group
74, 238, 335, 336, 451 RAAF Squadrons  Hurricanes

AHQ Iraq and Persia
208 Squadron (det)  Hurricanes

AHQ Levant
208 Squadron (det) Hurricanes

[Furball]

73 Squadron may have re-equipped by that point.

The Squadron's Hurricanes remained in the Western Desert and Tunisia until June 1943 when they were replaced by Spitfires and No. 73 moved to Italy for defensive patrols, becoming a fighter-bomber unit in April 1944. It retained this role for the rest of the war mainly operating over the Balkans. In April 1945 the Squadron moved to Yugoslavia until the end of the war moving to Malta in July 1945.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/history_old/h73.html

Cool info Dan, thanks.

[Angus]

The period from El-Alamein and then operation Torch, and into 1943 is of particular interest to me.
Since we're digging in that pond, do you have recommended literature for the period?
I have heard that "Fighter over the desert" by C.Shores and Hans Ring is very very good, but I have not been able to find it. Anyone?

[Guppy35]

Pricy but worth it.

22 copies on http://www.abebooks.com

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Fighters+over+the+desert&sts=t&an=Shores&y=15&x=39