M4

[VansCrew1]

ok i know with the M4 in the game the tigers price has gone down,but it's had to beleave that a M4 can kill a tiger 1800 out with 1 round in the body of the tank,i shoot the M4 in the turret with a tiger round twice and it bounces off.And with the T34's with their HVAP,camping a VH with a Tiger is not the smart thing to do,1 HVAP round can knock out a tigers gus of even kill it,the tiger has lost all it's advantage now with the HVAP rounds and the M4,they may as well be free,or the sherman should be a 10-15perks,it's easy to kill but the realism of the M4 killing a tiger is unreal.M4 kills a tiger 1 shot but 2 round off the turret dose not kill him,come on it took about 10 M4's to kill 1 tiger in WW2.But 1vs1 the M4 wins.It's not realistic.

[weazely]

Originally posted by VansCrew1
ok i know with the M4 in the game the tigers price has gone down,but it's had to beleave that a M4 can kill a tiger 1800 out with 1 round in the body of the tank,i shoot the M4 in the turret with a tiger round twice and it bounces off.And with the T34's with their HVAP,camping a VH with a Tiger is not the smart thing to do,1 HVAP round can knock out a tigers gus of even kill it,the tiger has lost all it's advantage now with the HVAP rounds and the M4,they may as well be free,or the sherman should be a 10-15perks,it's easy to kill but the realism of the M4 killing a tiger is unreal.M4 kills a tiger 1 shot but 2 round off the turret dose not kill him,come on it took about 10 M4's to kill 1 tiger in WW2.But 1vs1 the M4 wins.It's not realistic.

this has been a quote by vanscrew and i think


this will be fixed no biggy

[Fencer51]

"Finally, it was proven that Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by fire from tanks of "A" Squadron of Northamptonshire Yeomanry. British Firefly crew observed advancing Tigers and opened fire at when Tigers were some 800m away. According to original War Diary of "A" Squadron, at 12:20, 3 Tigers were moving towards the Squadron and were destroyed at 12:40, 12:47 and 12:52 without any losses. After the first Tiger was destroyed at 12:40, second one returned fire but was hit and blew up in a loud explosion. Following that, third Tiger was knocked out after receiving two hits. Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed as second at 12:47 by British Sherman VC "Firefly" commanded by Sergeant Gordon (gunner - Trooper Joe Ekins) from 3rd Platoon, "A" Squadron, 33rd Armored Brigade of 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry. British Sherman VC "Firefly" armed with 17 pounder gun was capable of penetrating Tiger's armor at range of 800m. The force of explosion blew off the turret, which landed upside down away from the hull. Wittmann did not know that British had Firefly in the area and felt confident in attacking their position with his Tigers, otherwise he would take different approach to the whole attack. Another version is that Wittmann was killed by fire from a Canadian regiment, the Sherbrooke Fusiliers. After Wittmann failed to return from the battle, search for him by the members of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" and his battalion took place during the day and on the night of 8/9th."

The Firefly that did the deed will be in the game soon.

Also FYI..

DailyMail article here.

[AAolds]

Well I see Vans has come around on the M4 vs Tiger.  

Seriously, the Tiger is not worth uppin at all anymore.  Thanks to whoever modeled the M4 for the game for making the Tiger the Surprise Hanger Queen Candidate for 2007.

[Viking]

Originally posted by VansCrew1
ok i know with the M4 in the game the tigers price has gone down,but it's had to beleave that a M4 can kill a tiger 1800 out with 1 round in the body of the tank,i shoot the M4 in the turret with a tiger round twice and it bounces off.And with the T34's with their HVAP,camping a VH with a Tiger is not the smart thing to do,1 HVAP round can knock out a tigers gus of even kill it,the tiger has lost all it's advantage now with the HVAP rounds and the M4,they may as well be free,or the sherman should be a 10-15perks,it's easy to kill but the realism of the M4 killing a tiger is unreal.M4 kills a tiger 1 shot but 2 round off the turret dose not kill him,come on it took about 10 M4's to kill 1 tiger in WW2.But 1vs1 the M4 wins.It's not realistic.

 

There are no US M4's with their pathetic main armament in the game yet. However there is a British Sherman VC Firefly with a 17 pounder in place of said pathetic main armament.

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Viking
There are no US M4's with their pathetic main armament in the game yet. However there is a British Sherman VC Firefly with a 17 pounder in place of said pathetic main armament.

I wouldn't exactly call the EZ-8 or the jumbo's armament pathetic.
You can though, I know how you like to paint with a broad-brush.



Bronk

[Rino]

Of course, no Allied or German tank could hope to stand against the
heavy Norwegian armo....err nevermind

[Viking]

Originally posted by Bronk
I wouldn't exactly call the EZ-8 or the jumbo's armament pathetic.
You can though, I know how you like to paint with a broad-brush.



Bronk

The “Jumbo” assault version of the M4 (M4A3E2) still used the 75 mm gun. The US 75 mm main gun was woefully inadequate and couldn’t defeat the armor of any German tank save the mark I and II. The US 76 mm M1 gun used on the M4A2(A3)E8 (easy eight) was only marginally better than the Russian 76.1 mm gun used on the T-34/76. And by early 1944 when the first production M1 gunned Shermans started to appear the Russians had already moved on to the 85 mm gun and the Germans had been fielding Tigers and Panthers since 1942 and 1943 respectively.

The only Sherman based US vehicle that had a good gun was the M36 tank destroyer with its 90 mm. However, it was open-topped and only lightly armored.

It is a curious fact that except for the big 120 mm M58 gun used on the US and British heavy tanks of the 1950’s no post-WWII US gun has been used on US main battle tanks. Early in the Cold War the US M-47 and M-48 Patton tanks used the same 90 mm gun used during WWII. Later they would be up-gunned with the British L7 gun, and the L7 would become the main armament of all US tanks until it was replaced by the German L44 gun in the M1 Abrams.

[Bruv119]

Vans you forget its a British modification  that usually means uber and can kill any piece of Scrap German iron that stands before it!


You should have seen what i pulled off yesterday  in about a minute  2 runway camping panzers dead  and a 2500 shot on an M3 that was just about to get over a hill to town.

I bet that m3 driver was like wtf just killed me   lol

Drove to town to kill another m4 (in one shot moving)  then about 5 guys proxied into me  Stoopid Bish hoarde lemmings.

[B3YT]

of course the british tank guns use a riffle and not a smooth bore . hmm now what would i choose........M1A2 or a nice challenger II?

[Viking]

I'd rather have the Leo 2A6 with the new L55 gun.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by VansCrew1
easy to kill but the realism of the M4 killing a tiger is unreal.M4 kills a tiger 1 shot but 2 round off the turret dose not kill him,come on it took about 10 M4's to kill 1 tiger in WW2.But 1vs1 the M4 wins.It's not realistic.

A if ignorance is bliss, you have a mighty blissful look on your face.

The Sherman tank we have in this game is the British Firefly variant that had the 17 pounder as the main gun.  This was a modification that was done by the British.  The 17 pounder was capable of taking out a Tiger tank in one shot to the frontal armor.   This was not fantasy but reality, so your assertion that the Firefly we have in AH2 was incapable of one shot kills on a Tiger is just product of an ignorant, ill-informed mind.  


Do yourself a favor and crack open a book once in awhile.


ack-ack

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Viking
The “Jumbo” assault version of the M4 (M4A3E2) still used the 75 mm gun. The US 75 mm main gun was woefully inadequate and couldn’t defeat the armor of any German tank save the mark I and II. The US 76 mm M1 gun used on the M4A2(A3)E8 (easy eight) was only marginally better than the Russian 76.1 mm gun used on the T-34/76. And by early 1944 when the first production M1 gunned Shermans started to appear the Russians had already moved on to the 85 mm gun and the Germans had been fielding Tigers and Panthers since 1942 and 1943 respectively.

While the 75mm was rather weak against later German armor, it was usually adequate against the MkIII and MkIV, especially with APC ammo.

Most Jumbos had the M1 or M2 76mm installed after delivery and before being issued to combat units. Likewise, most were allocated a small number of HVAP rounds, which were quite lethal.

M18s with HVAP were very much feared by German tank crews, having very nearly the same penetration as the 17 pounder below 1,000 yards. The problem was that HVAP were hard to come by as most were issued only to TD units. However, the barter system could secure a few for a Sherman crew.

My regards,

Widewing

[kvuo75]

M4 dies quite readily from a poorly dropped 500 lb bomb from an A20. Actually, any tank, other than that friggin Tiger, will.

[Stampf]

Keeping this thead alive. (In hopes of changes).

Firefly - Great Gun on a sound proven chasis.  Good work by the Brits in adapting to the horrific losses incured by the big German guns.  Was an effective Tiger Destroyer in WWII.  

Problem with Firefly in AcesHigh -  Its almost comparable to the issues people have with the LA7.  Great WWII weapon...BUT...it, like the LA7 was never the "Backbone" of it's respective countires forces,...YET...They are everywhere on the battlefield.  Also I believe the range of gun and hardness of armor need to be looked at critically by AH.  

Possible solutions:

Perk the FF, preferably after introducing the standard US M4 Sherman battle tank.  Let's face it.  For all it's shortcomings, the M4 is a popular tank.

or

Unperk the Tiger. Probably not a good idea.

Best possible solution (IMHO):

Introduce the perk free PanzerMK5.  The "Panther".  The Panther...WAS, (after Introduction) the main battle tank of German armoured forces, and it is absent from the battle field.  Result:  Tiger sits in the Hanger and the AH world is running amok with...A very unigue and effective version of a Tank produced in small numbers compared to its in game and absent from game contemporaries.

I'm still upping Tigers, but it is increasingly frustrating, when bouncing rounds from an 88, off of an M4's turrent or upper plates at range.