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Author Topic: Colin Powell Joins AlQueda  (Read 2424 times)

Offline leitwolf

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Colin Powell Joins AlQueda
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2007, 02:33:29 PM »
It doesnt matter where they are - they still retain their Humans Rights.

Either they are sentenced to prison in a court under the respectively applicable law (isnt easy to say which laws apply for them though), or they go free.

I'm not defending their actions or terrorism in general, and i think most of them are detained for a reason - but - nothing of that matters.

Taking someone, without court order, no trial, for an arbitrary long time, is the opposite of the essence and intent of the US constitution, Human Rights, and basically everything a western democracy should be standing for.
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Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #76 on: June 12, 2007, 02:53:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
rpm.. lemur....just out of curiosity..  what do you think we ought to do with the prisoners at gitmo?

Should we maybe take them back to where we caught them and release them?  Maybe after giving them a big fat check and a world wide apology first?

lazs


How about putting them on trial?

If these evil doers as a horrifying as advertised, proving them guilty in an open court should be easy.
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2007, 03:06:07 PM »
proving them guilty in an open court should be easy.
====
Hmmm........

Personally, I think the military tribunal has a vastly better chance at delivering genuine justice against these religious mad men than any open court in this country could hope for.  

I live my life by few rules, but one BIG rule is   "Do everything possible to stay away of the criminal justice system".

Leit, I get where your coming from, but thats too cut and dry for me, on this islamic terror matter at least.  I believe that the constitution must be bent, here and there, from time to time, in order to preserve it.  Like a reed blowing in the wind.......Im pretty sure it has been bent for various emergencies that have threatened the nation in the past.

Your position is commendable.

Sorry :cry
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Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #78 on: June 12, 2007, 03:06:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by leitwolf
Taking someone, without court order, no trial, for an arbitrary long time, is the opposite of the essence and intent of the US constitution, Human Rights, and basically everything a western democracy should be standing for.


Don't bother the bush people with western democracy fairytales, our president thinks it's ok to hold legal US residents and deny them habeas corpus.

http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=6642281&nav=AbC0
Associated Press - June 11, 2007 4:53 PM ET

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - The Justice Department plans to fight a federal court ruling that says the Bush administration cannot hold US residents indefinitely without charging them.
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2007, 03:33:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by leitwolf
Taking someone, without court order, no trial, for an arbitrary long time, is the opposite of the essence and intent of the US constitution, Human Rights, and basically everything a western democracy should be standing for.


Think how long some of the Poles sat in POW camps....  almost 7 years.  This is a war, and unfortuantely for those captured, it means detainment for the duration.
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Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #80 on: June 12, 2007, 03:39:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
proving them guilty in an open court should be easy.
====
Hmmm........

Personally, I think the military tribunal has a vastly better chance at delivering genuine justice against these religious mad men than any open court in this country could hope for.  


You're making an assumption these are "religious mad men", and that they have done anything illegal.... unless there are some specific facts and / or evidence that's says otherwise, under the US system of law everyone at getmo is innocent until proven guilty.

This system exists to keep political mad men & politicians from locking up those they just don't like, or assign an subjective label to... like "terrorist".

If they are evil criminals, a trail should leave no doubt, atm the only evidence against them is the word of our .gov.. which is seriously lacking in credibility.
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Offline Eagler

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don't worry
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2007, 04:42:03 PM »
when hillary takes over and lets them all out, pulls our troops out of the ME - Peace and Love will fill the world and everyone will love us and we will love everyone


LOL LOL LOL
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Offline Shamus

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« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2007, 04:50:37 PM »
No when Hillary takes over maybe some gun owners will be labeled as terrorists and just detained, but thats ok...government of man rather than law is fine if your man is in power.

shamus
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Offline john9001

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Re: don't worry
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2007, 05:06:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
when hillary takes over and lets them all out, pulls our troops out of the ME - Peace and Love will fill the world and everyone will love us and we will love everyone


LOL LOL LOL



ahhh, "peace in our time", i can't wait, cum ba ya.
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Offline moot

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« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2007, 08:35:53 PM »
:lol   Thanks john.
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2007, 08:50:41 PM »
well....after suffering through all these most fecal and presumptive nonsensical dribblings of excuses of posts Im reminded of why people get constitutional law degrees and become lawyers :aok

Im juss messin witch ewe :D
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 08:53:03 PM by Yeager »
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2007, 04:13:29 AM »
Quote
In closing, the concepts of due process,


I don't believe that applies to those captured on a battlefield.

Did Germans, Italians and Japanese captured during WWII get *due process*, I don't think so. They were held in PoW camps until the end of the war, then released.

Why so many Americans (and others) think those held at Gitmo need due process by civilian or military courts is beyond me.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2007, 08:24:52 AM »
xmarine..  are we talking about US citizens here or enemy combatants?  shouldn't there be a difference?

I agree that it needs to be established that there is a war and that they were combatants.

lazs
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2007, 09:28:44 AM »
There are only three possible categories you can place these people in. They are either:

1. Enemy soldiers captured on the battlefield and subject to imprisonment under the rules of the Geneva Convention.

2. Enemy soldiers not abiding by the GC and thus subject to summary execution as spies or saboteurs. However if they are not executed on the battlefield they are subject to civilian law leading to category 3.


3. Civilians that have committed criminal acts against your people/forces and thus subject to a civilian court of law.


I would say that most of the people captured in Afghanistan and Iraq falls under the first two categories, while people picked up in the US or kidnapped by your intelligence services in Pakistan, Italy, Sweden and other nations fall under the third category.
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Offline leitwolf

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« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2007, 01:05:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
I don't believe that applies to those captured on a battlefield.

Did Germans, Italians and Japanese captured during WWII get *due process*, I don't think so. They were held in PoW camps until the end of the war, then released.

Why so many Americans (and others) think those held at Gitmo need due process by civilian or military courts is beyond me.


Many were not captured on a battlefield, that's the problem.

Also, comparing US actions today with german camps in WW2 is exactly the downward spiral in the perceptions of what should be considered right and justified vs. something plain wrong.

And the answer to your last paragraph is easy. It's their right as a human person. Only exceptions: See Vikings post.
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