Author Topic: Redoing Jg5 109K4  (Read 1206 times)

Offline Larry

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« on: June 13, 2007, 05:09:44 PM »
Thank you airmess for the templates. The first skin I even made I used airmess' 109E4 skin, now that I can use his my 109 skins are going to look ALOT better. Having it there that I can see will help me alot when I do other skins mabey I will sit down and make my own one of these days. Well he it is Im going to finnish it up and send it in sometime next week.





Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
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Offline evenhaim

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 05:17:02 PM »
wow great work tk ill take it for a spin when its realised
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Offline Krusty

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 06:05:16 PM »
2 things:

1) Part of the prop isn't skinned. You need to skin a certain number of pixels on the front of all cowling parts (chin, nose, left, right) as part of the prop.

2) Perhaps the effects on the control surfaces are a bit too overwhelming? Looks like the ribs are the only thing there, when normally you can only barely see hints of the ribs.

Offline Citabria

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 08:40:50 PM »
yep the photoshop files are from an earlier version of the texturemaps and the nose was changed in later version you need to paint the front part of the fuselage same as spinner for it to look right. also the ailerons were blurred in later versions to make them look less pronounced.

make sure you give full credit to airmess for doing all the hard work. its very generous to share this file with you. if it was me i would put airmess name as the maker of the skin, thats why i cant in good concience use his work as my final skin and why I am building my own because I would feel obligated to give credit to the person who did all the work, to me colors are difficult and changing the colors dosnt make it a new skin. but im a salamander. but i give credit where credit is due.

now the question is what to do next?
rebuild your 109s using airmess files as a guide?
use his files and change the colors?

and does it really matter if you copied someone elses stuff instead of learning to do it. which brings me back to the real issue of making a quality skin. what have you learned?

do you know how to do what airmess did and are to lazy or cruched for time to do it? or do you not know how to do what he did and going to use the files as a learning tool or a crutch? which is worse i dunno.

airmess is not an egomaniac like me he dosnt mind so much if someone takes credit for his work. this is why I made you get the files from him directly instead of giving them to you when you asked me for them.

cheers your on your own. I was going to attempt to layout my techniques for you in detail step by step in your tips thread so that you could learn some realistic methods that you asked me for in the arenas.

but your all set now cut n paste and away ya go.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Xasthur

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 10:28:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Citabria
I was going to attempt to layout my techniques for you in detail step by step in your tips thread so that you could learn some realistic methods that you asked me for in the arenas.
 



Citabria, these tips would greatly appreciated by many.

I'm currently working through my first skin and it is a large task. I did not suspect that would I enjoy it so much, I'm finding it more interesting than actually playing at the moment.

Possibly due to the cold I have... too tired to actually fly.

Perhaps you could make a 'Skinning: by Citabria' thread here?
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Offline Larry

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 11:03:06 PM »
Isnt that the point of letting people have your template? So that they can use it. If airmess intended me to only use it as reference material then Im sorry and will make my own weathing. I have alot on my plate right now so the less time I have to work on wathering the better it is.

One of these days I would like to sit down and look over what all of you have said and make my own.

"what have you learned?"
By looking at his template for 30mins I have learned alot by seeing how he makes weathering, scraches, ect. Im still a noob when it comes to photoshop so any reference material that I can open up and look at instead of read is going to help when I start.

I know nothing about some of the effects you guys do, so when I can open it up and go "ohhh so thats how to do it" its alot of help. I have never and will never just cut and paste and try to pass it off as my own. I thanked airmess on this forum and in the emails that I sent him. If he wants me to and HTC will let me hell Ill put "Jg5 by airmess/TK"
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner


Offline Citabria

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2007, 06:45:52 AM »
no like I said airmess is a nice guy and he wont take offense to you using his stuff even if you decide that your ego demands full credit for work you didnt even do.

I am sure HTC will let you add airmess and your name next to the credits and I would prefer you do this. if I submitted my 109k4 skin right now without building my own origional wethering details and panels and rivet lines this is what I would do. as is my skin would rightly be called IV/JG4 by Airmess/Fester. in fact the quality factor would merit doing this as the skin does look excellent with his work I do question if I can do as well making my own from scratch but nevertheless the attempt will be made.


the only difference between your skin and mine right now is the colors. everything else is the same except I modified the spinner.
want to see what all the work you did actually looks like? well look below. take away what airmess did and post screenshots and you tell me who did most of the work




JG5 by Airmess/Truekill would be a true description of this skin.
you do realize airmess isnt even credited in game for making the default skins right? his name is nowhere on them it just says default but he made them all.

but this sums it up nicely...
Quote
One of these days I would like to sit down and look over what all of you have said and make my own


perhaps my biggest beef is the sheer pathetic crappy results that giving out a template to the masses will bring. I did this once the first time I made a skin it was the p40E. I thought it would be awsome if others could use all the work I put into accurate panels and rivets and detaisl for the warhawk to make some great skins.

the results ranged from MS paint 3 color abominations to outright forgeries. no one bothered to do anything more than add different colors and markings to the files I provided which were basic panels and rivets and hard to draw details without any effects. they took the layers made them transparent and submitted it basically as is.

so pretty much every p40E in game with exception to octavius work is made with my p40E template and it would give me great pleasure to make a bonfire out of all but maybe one of them. they are just that badly made. the only reason the got accepted with that littleeffort made was due to the template they colored. else there would be nothing to them.

the final insult to injury was a certain individual who got his skin accepted by pasting the skin I released on AH skins of the 49th FG p40E and making it darker and pasting it under the template again as is.. no effort made just black semi transparent lines... with my skin I did not intend for outright forgery of sitting right there looking back at me in a hideous dark shaded abomination. another tried to do this by pasting parts of another p40E I released on AH skins and posting pics from all angles of this skin they were to happy to take credit for making.

so you ask me why not release my work?
because  releasing it only give people who already refuse to make an effort to do quality work the ability to have their horifically unresearched paintcheme cut and pasted and submitted and accepted in under an hour and in game clogging up my PC as a complete waste of space.




this isnt il2. making 3000 copies of 1 skins will do nothing but add further carnage to the players who dont know better than to download all skins.

if it were up to me and you should be glad its not the skin list would be gutted to the bare minimums for each plane to avoid the already crippling 4 gigabite skin cache problems that make using the whole skinset impossible.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 07:12:57 AM by Citabria »
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Citabria

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 07:04:35 AM »
you know in fact I will one up this and put the money where my mouth is.

I am myself struck by how well a job airmess has done on this 109 skin that I am submitting the skin above as is with credit to his name first then mine because he did more work on it than I did. it will apear in game as
IV/JG4 by Airmess/Fester

I have tested it and both names fit.


I can see with my own eyes looking at just how much realism his work creates compared to what the skin looks like bare with the work I did.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Krusty

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 09:26:26 AM »
My $0.02 on templates:

IMO a template should only have white filled areas (so you know where the outlines are) and panel lines and rivets. Any weathering is entirely up to the skinner, and in fact the weathering if often what MAKES the skin. You can have a skin that looks like MS Paint, and weather it so it looks like an Airmess Original (TM). I think templates are nice, and they save a bit of time (if they're just panels/rivets/areas), buf if the template includes all the details, whose work are you submitting?

I'm against copying other folks' work, as Cit mentioned happened with him. However, I feel that if folks take a template and churn out crap, that's a reflection of their own poor work. They will be known for churning out crap as a skinner. IMO folks that steal others' skins should have those skins pulled from the game.

I'm not against templates, as long as they ONLY say "paint here" and help with demarcation lines and so forth (maybe very basic colors), and as long as they make the skinner do all the work. It's one thing to PM another skinner and ask "Hey, can you send me a PSD with "this" layer on it? I'd like to see how you did that" vs just having the template already doing all the hard stuff for ya.

I will admit: When I started, the Swiss 109E template (by Airmess no less, if I'm right) did help me with figuring out the layout of the skin. It helped me with certain stencils and markings. I probably would have done just as well to start from scratch, but it was a good learning experience. I've tried a few other templates as well, and am working on a P40E using Cit's much-lamented template, but this is only to save time (not to steal his work).

So if you're just starting I think they're handy. Everybody has to start somewhere. On the other hand, if you don't do it yourself they stifle creativity. Once you've got a couple of skins under your belt you should be making your own "templates" and should look to finished skins for inspiration, rather than templates for help.

I haven't seen this template you two are using. I'll have to check it out (for curiousity's sake) later tonight.

Offline Larry

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 01:43:17 PM »
Well since fester wont be happy till I sit down for a month and make my own weathering I guess Ill do it. I wont cut and paist Ill read as many tutorials as I can find and try to do the best gob I can. Only thing I couldnt figure out is how airmess made that second layer of "clouds". It looks as if he did some sort of lighting effect then used remove white.
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Offline Citabria

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 01:46:51 PM »
i didnt use the clouds layers. personally i think they are uneccesary
and your textures will never match where they line up if you use a clouds layer they will always look different at the seams.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Larry

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 01:53:07 PM »
I always erase them on the edges.
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Offline Krusty

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2007, 01:53:57 PM »
Unless you're very creative. On one or two of mine I had that problem, so I took a soft eraser, large brush, and went over the top edge of the left fuselage one something, and then on the top edge of the right fuselage, and the clouds did a subtle fading in intensity until they disappeared, and the "joint line" was smooth.

More trouble than it's worth, but it's possible.

Offline Citabria

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 03:21:23 PM »
you can use the file because you got airmess permission I have no say in it.
I just felt it was right to give him credit in the skin menu for all the work he did.

you know he did every default 109 skin in game except the emil and there is no credit given in skin menu they all say default. which is strange I would think HTC should just label them as the other skins even if it is default skin.
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline Larry

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Redoing Jg5 109K4
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2007, 03:41:19 PM »
Yes I also agree that instead of "default"  it should sat "???? by airmess". If HTC lets you put yours as "IV/JG4 by Airmess/Fester" I would be glad to make mine "Jg5 by Airmess/TrueKill". Its only 23 for mine I think limit is 25 or 30. I would love to give credit where credit is due. Airmess made everthing except the paint sheame. I dont know if he knew I was going to make a skin useing his work. Im sorry if he doesnt want me to, and will not send it in. I have started work on my own skin and will try to do the best job that I can with my limited skills.
Once known as ''TrueKill''.
JG 54 "Grünherz"
July '18 KOTH Winner