U.S. planes in a furball.

[killnu]

I will 2nd the P38G.   Great plane slow with flaps out....lots of fire power in nose....and it is beautiful.

[Platano]

Fm2

[DaddyAck]

F4F, P38G, and F4u-1D.

The F4F is a robust bird for those whoom enjoy intense furballs while maintaining good Situational Awareness (due to limited rear visibility).  Flaps in this bird add rather nicely to the planes deceptively tight turning radius and deploy at most speeds (dives excluded), just do not hope to out run anything.

The P38G is in my opinion an outstanding aircraft for down and dirty fighting.  There is a lack of WEP (none to be exact) but with 50% internal fuel and the lighter ammo load speed should not be an issue.  With the liberal use of flaps (these also deploy at most speeds) a decent stick can hang in turns farely well, also it should be noted that even without WEP the 38G can still dominate in the verticle, given the proper set up. Just watch your stall and compression.

The F4u-1D in my opinion is the pinacle of the NON PERKED F4Us, although there are those that will give that honor to the 1A variant.  All in all the D-Hog has its large radial engine giving it some serious git up an' go with plenty of WEP to spare.  The great thing about the D hog is there is only one main fuel tank so there is no need to manually burn the wing tanks down to increase roll rate and since the wing tanks are gone the wings are internally strenthened so they do not rip off in dives ( yes I know it sounds lame, but I have repeadedly de-winged my 1A-Hog pulling out at the bottom of an agressive dive).  The D-Hog will also turn deceptively well, just make use of the gear (which acts as a dive brake) and the flaps. When used together they can really swing the Hog around in a turn.

Well, there ya have it, my $00.02  

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DaddyAck
There is a lack of WEP (none to be exact) but with 50% internal fuel and the lighter ammo load speed should not be an issue.  

Taking the lighter ammo load will not give you any appreciable benefits that makes taking the lighter load worthwhile.  


ack-ack

[Furball]

I like the F6F in a furball.  It is a really good plane.  Doesnt do any one thing exceptionally, but doesnt do anything badly.

[Sombra]

Originally posted by tommygun
PWN? What is that..sorry I'm new.

Pwn

[Hoarach]

Originally posted by killnu
I will 2nd the P38G.   Great plane slow with flaps out....lots of fire power in nose....and it is beautiful.

EWWWWW "Stevie wonder special" nowhere looks as good as the 38L.

[Saxman]

DaddyAck, couple points on the F4Us:

That big radial engine helps give the Hog a lot of speed, but NOT a lot of acceleration. It's powerful but adds a lot to drag, which combined with the Hog's mass limits the acceleration. Unless you're nose-down, you're not gonna win the short drag.

If you're shedding wings in high-speed dives with the 1A you're doing something wrong. I've made full-power WEP-on dives in the 1A at airspeeds well exceeding 500mph with high-G blackout-inducing pullouts and not once lost parts.

Also, you don't want to use your gear for extended periods (some guys will say at all) in a furball. They help you slow down, that's all, and add nothing themselves to the F4U's turning ability. I rarely kick them out for more than half a second, the exception being my initial dive through to avoid overspeed.

[Spikes]

Originally posted by tommygun
PWN? What is that..sorry I'm new.

PWN'er is "One who Owns"

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Serenity
P-40E Tommohawk is a good turner with flaps down.

Well generally, the P-40D thru N were called the Kittyhawk (commonwealth) or Warhawk (AAF). Tomahawk was bestowed upon the export P-40B/C types.

As to flying the P-40s, flaps can greatly tighten the turn radius, but prolonged flaps use can be detrimental.

In a stall fight, either P-40 can surprise with their agility. However, excellent E management is required to excel in the type. Full flaps will eat speed rapidly and the lack of horsepower (which means lack of acceleration) means that you will not be able to replace that speed anytime soon without trading altitude.

Within the plane set, there are several aircraft that require some altitude to obtain maximum effectiveness. P-40s are two of those types. Altitude means that you can generate speed. Moreover, despite having only marginal power, the P-40s can dive as fast as any prop fighter and faster than most. Either can exceed 600 mph TAS with relative ease. To retain a reasonable measure of the control at that velocity, you will have to adjust trim a little during the dive. Elevator trim is quite powerful, so trimming it to neutral (center of scale) is more than enough to allow an undramatic pull-out. I have dive tested the P-40s, diving straight down from 30,000 feet. Virtually nothing can catch the P-40 in vertical dive like this. Some fighters can keep up, but once below 5,000 feet and doing better than 595 mph, no other fighter has better control authority than the P-40s. I've watched 190s and Spitfires shed wings trying to follow my P-40 through maneuvers at high Mach speeds (Mach .75). P-40s are extremely strong and can take much abuse.

We have been running a Thursday night clinic in the Training Arena this month (June), Fighting Multiple Enemies. We are practicing 3 on 1 combat. We start out with the group being divided into sub-groups of three. A Trainer takes each sub-group and flies as the lone fighter for the first engagement, with each pilot getting opportunities to fight the other three. My primary rides for these clinics has been the P-40B and P-40E. It has proven to be up to the task. A reasonably skilled pilot flying a P-40 should fear nothing.

Furballing in the P-40B...





P-40E landing. One of Fester's beautiful skins...



My regards,

Widewing

[Fulmar]

Originally posted by Widewing
A reasonably skilled pilot flying a P-40 should fear nothing.

Everyone who plays the congo line attack plan knows that once an enemy P-40 lifts from the attacked base, all other enemy are diregarded and the P-40 must die as soon as possible.

[WMDnow]

Most U.S. planes do not take politely to the turn.  In a furball, I either let them kill their energy climbing to me and let them be easy kills, or use my speed to dive into the fight and saddle up and kill the poor guy quickly.  F4U's have great dives, can use gears as dive breaks, can up from a carrier, decent firepower, and, in the F4U-1 and F4U-1A, you have longer range due to wing tanks, and can burn them to turn with some of the best.  I fly F4U's alot, and enjoy their versitality.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by Bodhi
LOL, fly the F4u-1 series.  They PWN.

heh beat me to it...imagine their surprise...

[clerick]

Originally posted by Hoarach
P38

werd

[AKDogg]

Originally posted by DaddyAck
The great thing about the D hog is there is only one main fuel tank so there is no need to manually burn the wing tanks down to increase roll rate and since the wing tanks are gone the wings are internally strenthened so they do not rip off in dives ( yes I know it sounds lame, but I have repeadedly de-winged my 1A-Hog pulling out at the bottom of an agressive dive).  The D-Hog will also turn deceptively well, just make use of the gear (which acts as a dive brake) and the flaps. When used together they can really swing the Hog around in a turn.

This is where u are wrong about having only 1 tank.  -1 is better to fly into a furball.  U have 3 tanks.  If your main gets hit, u got 2 other fuel tanks to get u home.  Now the -1 I fly with 75% fuel all the time unless I doing bomber escort which then I still take 75% fuel and DT.  75% alone in a -1 will give u 39 mins of flight time.  Problem with -1 is if u take 50% fuel, then your wing tanks are empty.  This is where the -1a comes in handy also for furballs.  No matter what full load out u take.  It puts fuel in all tanks.  But the downside to that is u have to burn the wing tanks to lighten the wing loading to make it roll faster.  -1 hog with 75% fuel has wing tanks alrdy at 25% which is low enough to manev.  It will also get u home a full sector +.  So when my main tank is empty, that my que to go home.

Now as for ripping wings off a hog, I have never ripped any wings off one yet.  I have taking a -1 hog to 620mph and pulled out and almost at black out.  Now the -1 locks up at that speed so u have to use trim to get it to pull out but once its down to 610, u can pull back on stick to continue to pull out.