AvA rules of conduct

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by soda72
What was posted last week in the MOTD was the 'unwritten rules' not the 'code of conduct'.   They are very separate from each other.   The basic idea behind the 'code of conduct' is to state to players to 'shut up, suck it up, and fly'.  If ya can't you'll be muted or ejected.   It has nothing to do with telling players how to fly.  

This is accurate.  Most of us have a sense of the unwritten rules - but they are custom, not law.  Dicho's post about informing your own side about them is a good idea, and there are other ways as well.

We had come to a point, however, where we decided to put an end to the trash talking.  That was the origin of the original posting:  to let folks know that it had to stop, and that there would be consequences if it didn't.  It may have been a mistake to combine that warning with the suggested code of conduct.  One way or another, it was worth the try.

I think I can speak for all the staff, however, in saying that the trash talking warning still holds, in case there are those (you know who you are) who think we are backing off that.

- oldman (who admits that he favored posting the "unwritten rules.")

[Dichotomy]

Okay I'm going to go off on a rant for a minute here.  If I step on any toes or come across as a pompus know it all I'll apologize in advance.  

The AVA has become my arena of choice because of the community.  Slash, Storch, Oldman, Truekill, Shifty, Bug, and a host of others are guys I like flying with and against.

I have no problem with the code being posted in the MOTD.  They are suggestions and people who can not take them for what they are can whine until they are hoarse but they don't get it.  Regs should please take time to EXPLAIN IT TO THEM IN THE TEXT BUFFER, PM'S, OR COUNTRY VOX.

Again I will implore the core group to take the 30 seconds to pm a newcomer who is whining on 200 or doing something that's not considered proper aside and tell them what's what.  

When Shifty and I met we talked about this subject and I talked to him about forums that I had moderated and admin'd but until tonight I've never let anybody including my squadmates know what those sites were.  The sites are still up and are http://www.facethejury.com and http://www.judgeme.net.  Sites that are frequented and posted in by hormonal teenagers and 20 something people that are pretty much all attention grubbing posers.  In my positions on those sites I managed to, through pushing the pm issue on arguments, decrease the drama to practically zero.  That's pretty much gone by the wayside these days but my point still stands.  I am pretty astute about human nature and I truly believe in this point.

I really don't mind a little chest thumping or trash talking on 200 even though I'll never join in on it even when that magic day comes that I can roll and land 3 to 5 kills more often than not.  But the grade school arguing and b#tching is just going to drag the arena down.  

I'll give an example of what I mean.  A couple of nights ago I was engaged with 2 hurris in a 109 and a 38 joined the fight with alt.  I pointed nose down and ran like a cocker spaniel being pursued by a pit bull.  Unfortunately for me I couldn't get away and the 38 driver got an easy kill.  

SO WHAT? I landed in the tower and got a fresh new airplane.  My IMMEDIATE reaction was.. you !@#%!@%%@#$% what are you thinking? But I took a deep breath and said to myself 'the regs will take care of that over time'.  In order to take this guy to task I would have to OPEN THE TEXT BUFFER, TYPE IN MY REACTION, AND HIT ENTER.   So the people that want to talk S(@# are either summa cum laude's of Mavis Bacons typing school or incapable of thinking before they hit enter.  YES I was angry for a minute so I took that minute to decide to throw the 38 driver a and go get a beer and calm down.  

Example b is early last week I saw a friendly engaged with a con and turned towards the fight.  The friendly asked me to stay out and I grabbed some alt and circled the fight just in case my guy got capped.   Don't really remember what happened after that but it looked like the kind of fight we all dream of.

Example c is on Wednesday night I had a spit on the run and I saw tracers coming over my bird.  Looked back and I had two friendlies in good position and broke off.  My personal feeling is 2 v 1 is okay.  Any more than that is overkill.

Now this board, and the arenas, are substantially more difficult to moderate or staff than the places I've worked in because, as a member of the staff, you're not only riding herd on the populace but competing with and against them.  

So that adds an additonal degree of difficulty on them for a position that I do not believe they receive any financial compensation.  Let's cut them a little slack shall we?  If you think they HO'd or whatevered you then tell them privately, check the film if you have it, and realize that they are human beings that are capable of making the same mistakes that we all make.  

We have a growing arena with a great group of core players.  I would hope that all of the regulars would step back, take a breath, drop some of the personal animus, and step up and do what is best for the health of the arena and all of us to act like gentlemen.  

None of us are stat rats that I know of so really what does it matter if you DO get killed in a manner that is generally unacceptable.  

Here's another idea I'd like to float.  Say I'm on Axis and Oldman is on Allies and I engaged with someone I don't recognize and they HO me on the initial merge and pop my oil.  Nothing wrong with pm'ing Oldman or any of the rest of the core group and saying 'hey man ####### just ho'd me can you talk to him about that?'.

I think that's a better way of avoiding a way of poisoning the personality of the arena than dragging stuff out in public when the cost was really only a few minutes of time and $15 a month or $16.03 in my case.  

Again.. just my opinions.

[TheBug]

Holy schnike!  Again another excellent post Dichodog.

You explained it perfectly, I will do my best to do my part.

[Sweet2th]

Originally posted by Larry


Alot of the new guys in the AvA must have thought it said DON'T HO, gang, vulch because there was alot of "Hey didnt you read the rules" comeing from the guys who've never set foot in there.

Alot of us were playing it clean without a MOTD to say so.You mean to type me that you have no other way of playing than to HO, Vulch or Gang?You can't give a clean fight in the AvA?

If i see you engaged with a friendly i will not help unless the friendly asks, if you kill the friendly i will let you regain E state and Alt before i engage you.

The AvA(CT) used to be a FUN place to fight in with well over 100 People on a thursday night.

We start promoting the Arena as to clean fights and good squad based team work, to show the other players who are tired of the MA Same Same that a good and even better time can be had in the AvA(CT) and when we do get them to come in they get treated crappy.


LAst werds:Keep it clean and don't be a Chump!

[Stoney74]

I was someone that was complaining both over country and 200 about the ho-ing and ganging.  I've been in the AvA when it was 2v2, and it was always good clean fights that were basically decided by ACM's and/or good piloting, E-management, etc.  I went in there based on the recommendation of one of my squaddies and an invitation from some of the VF-4 gang.  Both discussed that even though there was a larger number of folks on, everyone there was interested in a non-MA, good clean fight type of atmosphere.

After getting into some 1v6's and getting ho'd by anything with more frontal firepower, I left.  Not my cup of tea.  I don't have a reason to be in the AvA if its merely going to be just like the MA.  I went in there for a change of pace, and didn't get it.

The customary rules have always been in place and were my expectation.  Once my expectations were not met, I voiced my displeasure and left.  Oldman, Soda--you guys let me know what I can do to contribute to the AvA, but I'm not going to go in there and joust with Hurri II's and 110's or be the rabbit for 5 guys.

[Larry]

Problem is the more numbers the crappier the fights will be. Some of the best fights Iv ever had was when I logged on in the morning and waited for someone to come in. When its 1v1-4v4 there are really good fights, but once numbers start hitting the teens and up its just turns into a big furball with HOs. One thing some people like to call a "gang" is when they jump into a furball and all thier buddies die. Then they have five, six red guys on them and die. Thats what I call bad luck, only one you can blame is yourself. I would love to see the squad missions come back to the AvA. Nothing like a big bomber raid with escort to bring out the fun.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Larry
One thing some people like to call a "gang" is when they jump into a furball and all thier buddies die. Then they have five, six red guys on them and die. Thats what I call bad luck, only one you can blame is yourself.

I understand what you're saying Larry, and if this seems snarky, I really don't mean it that way, but...

There is every reason to not allow 6 guys to gang 1 guy, regardless of the circumstances involved.  One, it should take no more than 2 folks, using proper coordination, to take out one guy.  The other 4 can maintain altitude and prepare to receive the eventual appearance of the next batch of bad guys.  I almost always fly with a squad mate, and more often than not, there are 4 or more of us flying together.  We purposely don't fight 4v1 for this very reason.  We'll take a pair in, and leave the other pair to pick up the next guy or guys.  For six guys to chase a single is a wasteful misallocation of resources.  If a fight evolves from a 6v6 to a 1v6, there's every reason for it to actually be a 1v2 with 4 guys for cover.  That's my opinion of course, but one that I think has practical applicability in any arena in AH2.  That's the way my squad fights because its a smarter way to manage the revenge killers and endless re-upping that is a part of the way this game is structured.  If it also increases the "sportsmanship" of the fight, I see it as a desirable side-effect.

[Yeager]

why not just make the AvA by invitation only, or make it passwd protected or something like that.  This way, only the people you want to have access will be there for you to play with.  

Too many times Ive gone in there and all it has been was a lightly populated dueling arena.....ask for permission to engage......no head on attacks.....no more than one versus one player at a time.  

Really boring rules to have to abide by for a historically matched allied-axis plane set with historical terrains.  This should be one of the more popular arenas and it certainly is not.  Typically it is the lowest populated arena.

[Larry]

Yeager, The only time I ever ask to drop into a fight is when theres a 1v1 and I think the friendly could use some help. I say "CPID you got that guy?". If he says nothing or says no I fly on by. HOs are a no no in the AvA. Some people HO over and over in there, but if you are labeled a HOer then you get no respect and you get beat up on.

AvA vets like the"really boring rule" as you say. We fly in there to get something different then a horde of Lghays and Nikis that HO pull out to 5k turn and HO again. The best fights you'll ever have will be in the AvA if you took time to fly in there.

[storch]

the AvA staff wants a good clean arena.  for argument's sake let's call it utopia, paradise, nirvana or whatever.  my suggestion is that they vacate and find the holy grail instead.  the AvA will always be either a very small number of like minded players or a mini MA with crappy set ups.

I've often suggested that the way to curb the disagreable ingame behavior is by not featuring certain aircraft.  cheif on that list is the HurriIIc.  this model in AH is so rediculously overmodelled and so misused by the titsucking retards that play in it that I gladly stay from the AvA because it is in there every week.

all you will see is the play that most players are looking to stay away from, namely idiots HO'n and the only use they give the IIc is a quick reversal so they can get another face shot at you.

personally I'm not too bothered by the ganging or the HO'n or the HurriIIc it's a fact of life in the MA.  the difference is that in the MA one can up a fast fighter drop down nail four or five of the schooling tardlettes and die with some satisfaction.  the nasty is when those three elements combine in a limited plane set and a small map with few players environment which is the AvA then fun flies out the window.

sadly the very (for the most part) [non]players who bring you these planesets are either too obstinate or too disinterested in what actually occurs during play time to listen objectively to suggestions from players who are in there every day and consider making minor but impacting change which would in all likelihood manifest the gameplay change many would like.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by storch
I've often suggested that the way to curb the disagreable ingame behavior is by not featuring certain aircraft.  cheif on that list is the HurriIIc.  this model in AH is so rediculously overmodelled and so misused by the titsucking retards that play in it that I gladly stay from the AvA because it is in there every week.

 

I hate when you hold it all in like that. Express yourself more!:aok

[TheBug]

I may be out of line here, but I kinda enjoy a little titsucking every now and then.

[Guppy35]

Might I suggest that folks are pounding something very minor, with big hammers here?

Posting the suggestion that folks not HO, gang etc, is not mandating anything.  It's a wish to make the folks coming in new to the AvA see that it's not a mini-MA, and from my experiences the last few weeks when I can get in there, it's not.

It's been great fun, great fights and great people for the most part.

I know the guys in the 80th feel the same about it too.

And no matter what is posted we're going to fly the way we want, which means we're coming in at 2-3K and we're not gonna HO, gang or jump into a 1 v 1 unless asked.  Generally we tell ya that we're coming too

Chances are I'll type on 200 "The 2nd 38 is staying out" when I come across a 1 v 1 as well so the other guys don't have to worry about me picking that fight.

All that being said, go ahead and fly the way you want to.  It's your dime, and having fun is the key.

But remember, the impression you give to new folks coming into the AvA will either help or hurt the cause in getting people to keep coming back.

[VERTEX]

Ive been playing AH for about 5 years now.

The most fun Iv'e had recently was last week in the AVA.

I find it extremely refreshing to have an arena with gentlemen's rules.

I think these rules should be posted upon entering. I also think once the knowledge of these rules gets out and players become aware of the type of fighting that goes on in the AVA as a result numbers will increase.

I have always hated flying the 109, but because of limited selection chose to fly the 109f4. Now I really like it and have been flying it in the ma aswell.
The AVA is probably the best training arena for veteran flyers because it forces you to fly planes you would not otherwise select, and you get a chance for some really good duelling where you get to pratice turn fighting without worrying about getting ganged or HOed.

What could be better.

I intend to fly in the AVA more often and find the atmosphere generally promotes a higher quality of play. But, had the rules not been posted I would have gone around doing what is normal in other arenas.

I hope the players in the AVA will continue to foster a high level of gentleman like play.

To give a good example, I was in a Hurri the other day, had my engine shot out, and as I coasted in to land in a field, I typed on 200 that I had no engine.
My persuer typed back go ahead and land and he boke off. I wish I could remember who it was but I cant. He was a true knight of the air. When I landed some other guy dove in and blew me up. Well thats the way it goes.

The point is if we all played like the first guy, can you just imagine how much fun the AVA could be.

We all know we can get kills by vulching HOing and high angle shots, but it takes more to saddle up and that is really satisfying. To have an arena that works different from the others is great.

To those who work hard to create this type of environment in the AVA I SALUTE you.

Thank You.

[Sweet2th]

Originally posted by VERTEX
Ive been playing AH for about 5 years now.

The most fun Iv'e had recently was last week in the AVA.

I find it extremely refreshing to have an arena with gentlemen's rules.

I think these rules should be posted upon entering. I also think once the knowledge of these rules gets out and players become aware of the type of fighting that goes on in the AVA as a result numbers will increase.

I have always hated flying the 109, but because of limited selection chose to fly the 109f4. Now I really like it and have been flying it in the ma aswell.
The AVA is probably the best training arena for veteran flyers because it forces you to fly planes you would not otherwise select, and you get a chance for some really good duelling where you get to pratice turn fighting without worrying about getting ganged or HOed.

What could be better.

I intend to fly in the AVA more often and find the atmosphere generally promotes a higher quality of play. But, had the rules not been posted I would have gone around doing what is normal in other arenas.

I hope the players in the AVA will continue to foster a high level of gentleman like play.

To give a good example, I was in a Hurri the other day, had my engine shot out, and as I coasted in to land in a field, I typed on 200 that I had no engine.
My persuer typed back go ahead and land and he boke off. I wish I could remember who it was but I cant. He was a true knight of the air. When I landed some other guy dove in and blew me up. Well thats the way it goes.

The point is if we all played like the first guy, can you just imagine how much fun the AVA could be.

We all know we can get kills by vulching HOing and high angle shots, but it takes more to saddle up and that is really satisfying. To have an arena that works different from the others is great.

To those who work hard to create this type of environment in the AVA I SALUTE you.

Thank You.

.....imagine that !