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Author Topic: The General's Report  (Read 546 times)

Offline Sandman

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The General's Report
« on: June 18, 2007, 06:55:07 PM »
Abu Ghraib is old news... but here's something more.

The story of Major General Antonio Taguba's investigation of the abuses.

linky

It's worth a read, but I promise you won't like it.
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Offline john9001

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The General's Report
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2007, 07:19:16 PM »
does the report cover what the al qaeda does to their prisoners? If not, we don't want to hear about your "abuses".
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Offline bustr

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The General's Report
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2007, 07:24:47 PM »
The full report as published by the investigating teams is available to everyone.

Link to Hearing info:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm

All of the abuses were documented. The report has always been available to the public. What all of us do not know is if Taguba made personal complaints off the record to his superiors in a non acceptable manner for the environment he was a member of and that was why he was asked to retire. Sr. Officers in the U.S. Military get fired in this manner. Normally the media couldnt give a rat's hind end. Do you remember how many Sr. Officers took the walk of shame during the Clinton regime? This is old news. If were Cosovo and the Clinton era the media would be ruining Taguba for being disloyal to Der Schlick Meister.
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Offline rpm

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The General's Report
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2007, 09:38:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
does the report cover what the al qaeda does to their prisoners? If not, we don't want to hear about your "abuses".
So sinking to their level is a good thing?
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Offline Sandman

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The General's Report
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2007, 11:09:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
does the report cover what the al qaeda does to their prisoners? If not, we don't want to hear about your "abuses".


If you read the report, you'll note that there were just one or two Al Qaeda prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
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sand

Offline Yeager

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The General's Report
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2007, 11:18:29 PM »
photographs showing prisoners stripped, abused, and sexually humiliated,
====
Not very pleasant sounding for sure, but does this report illustrate ( I haven't read it, summary anyone?) what real torture was going on there?  Was there any of the classic physical knuckle busting, testicle crushing, skull drilling type torture going on at Abu Ghraib?
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Offline Jappa52

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The General's Report
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2007, 11:24:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
So sinking to their level is a good thing?


I agree that the conduct of our soldiers; the abuse, mistreatment and neglect of those prisoners was wrong but how can you compare those incidents to beheadings?
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Offline Elfie

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The General's Report
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 11:38:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
photographs showing prisoners stripped, abused, and sexually humiliated,
====
Not very pleasant sounding for sure, but does this report illustrate ( I haven't read it, summary anyone?) what real torture was going on there?  Was there any of the classic physical knuckle busting, testicle crushing, skull drilling type torture going on at Abu Ghraib?


I read it, and while it didn't go into a lot of specifics, it certainly hinted at some pretty nasty physical abuse. It also mentioned a video of an American soldier sodomizing a female detainee and hinted at much worse photographs than were released to the public.

Something I find very disturbing is that General Taguba was only authorized to investigate the soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison and not any further up the chain of command.

rpm I don't believe that we have sunk to the level of the terrorists yet.....

Otoh, if abuses like this are not curbed immediately and ALL of those responsible, including officers, no matter how high their rank, are not held accountable, how do we ensure that this doesn't happen again, or even isn't still happening.

Thanks for the link Sandman. I hadn't seen anything like this yet, I had only seen the pictures that were released to the public. While I didn't agree with what was being done in those pictures, I also didn't think they constituted torture either. Now I'm not so sure considering we haven't seen the worst of it.
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Offline Sandman

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The General's Report
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2007, 12:19:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jappa52
I agree that the conduct of our soldiers; the abuse, mistreatment and neglect of those prisoners was wrong but how can you compare those incidents to beheadings?


Oh yeah... we want to get in on this limbo dance.
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sand

Offline Yeager

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The General's Report
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2007, 12:21:47 AM »
I also didn't think they constituted torture either. Now I'm not so sure considering we haven't seen the worst of it.
====
A very important piece to this story, I would think, is knowing what has become of the individuals that were charged with criminal acts at Abu Ghraib.  

Has our system reacted in a punitive manner to those guilty of crimes at Abu Ghraib?
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Offline Sandman

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The General's Report
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 12:22:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
photographs showing prisoners stripped, abused, and sexually humiliated,
====
Not very pleasant sounding for sure, but does this report illustrate ( I haven't read it, summary anyone?) what real torture was going on there?  Was there any of the classic physical knuckle busting, testicle crushing, skull drilling type torture going on at Abu Ghraib?



From the story, not the report:

"In the meeting, the officials professed ignorance about Abu Ghraib. “Could you tell us what happened?” Wolfowitz asked. Someone else asked, “Is it abuse or torture?” At that point, Taguba recalled, “I described a naked detainee lying on the wet floor, handcuffed, with an interrogator shoving things up his rectum, and said, ‘That’s not abuse. That’s torture.’ There was quiet.”"
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Offline Sandman

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The General's Report
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2007, 12:23:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
I also didn't think they constituted torture either. Now I'm not so sure considering we haven't seen the worst of it.
====
A very important piece to this story, I would think, is knowing what has become of the individuals that were charged with criminal acts at Abu Ghraib.  

Has our system reacted in a punitive manner to those guilty of crimes at Abu Ghraib?


Yeager... Please, read the story. It'll save everyone a lot of time.
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Offline rpm

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The General's Report
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2007, 12:26:08 AM »
We haven't reached the beheading level....yet. Hopefully we never will. Just as Elfie said, these abuses need to be nipped in the bud.
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Offline Sandman

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The General's Report
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2007, 12:29:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
We haven't reached the beheading level....yet. Hopefully we never will. Just as Elfie said, these abuses need to be nipped in the bud.


Quote
Taguba said. “And yet when we get to the senior-officer level we forget those values. I know that my peers in the Army will be mad at me for speaking out, but the fact is that we violated the laws of land warfare in Abu Ghraib. We violated the tenets of the Geneva Convention. We violated our own principles and we violated the core of our military values. The stress of combat is not an excuse, and I believe, even today, that those civilian and military leaders responsible should be held accountable.”
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Offline JB88

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The General's Report
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2007, 12:32:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
does the report cover what the al qaeda does to their prisoners? If not, we don't want to hear about your "abuses".


who is this "we" to which you refer?

(looks under rock)
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