Fear the Spit 16!

[Makoyouidiot]

Originally posted by Guppy35
The truth of the matter is, that it's the pilot that makes the difference.

Generally in a fight, I go for the 16s, N1Ks and La7s first, just cause there are so many.  And I generally don't have trouble knocking them down, unless I run into a guy who knows what to do with it, then I know I'm in trouble.

But that applies to lots of birds,

That being said, I prefer to run into the guys who know what there doing cause even if I die, I get better trying to hang with them.

And it's those knock down drag out, shaking hands afterwards, fights that make the game worth playing:aok

yes! the ones where you have to take a break afterwards because your hand is sore from holding the joystick.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Krusty
I disagree...

Doesn't matter how skilled a pilot is, if he's in a low, slow P40b he's not going to be able to nose up at all, but if he's in a low, slow spit16 he can rocket for the moon like there's no tomorrow.

Sure, skill is one thing, but the plane has an inherrent "potential" ability that the "skill" can use. One must still worry about planes with more "potential" more than one must worry about planes with less "potential. If I'm in a Ki-84, and I have 2 planes to worry about, I'm going to regard the spit8 as a larger threat than the typhoon. Doesn't matter if the typhie pilot is better than the spit pilot, because the spit pilot doesn't *have* to be good in the spit8.

I would guess that you have never flown against or with pilots such as ..

Drex
Leviathn
WildThing
Furball
Fester (when he played consistently)

.. they are proof that it's the pilot and not the plane.

I wish I still had a copy of Drex's pwnage in the JU-88s ... was probably the most skilled flying that I have even seen.

[Krusty]

I'm not saying that a skilled pilot can't get kills.

I'm saying that "plane X" has "capabilities X" and if the pilots skill is level 0 or 10 they only add to the plane's qualities. Skill isn't going to make a p40b chase down a p51. Skill isn't going to make a hurrmk.1 catch a 109k in a climbing fight.

Please don't make it a "you're just ignorant" type of thread, because that's not the case. I'm not saying the pilot doesn't count -- I'm saying the pilot skill isn't the only reason a person gets kills.

Let's face it, it's like JB's sig file, it's like playing Madden NFL on easy and winning 180-1. Just because you get kills or win fights doesn't mean YOU did it. Just means the playing field was tilted in your favor.


IMO folks that claim "It's only the pilot, always the pilot, never the plane" smack of bragging and arrogance to me. There's far too many variables in ANY fight to say "it was the pilot" -- everything from E-state, to numbers engaged, to planes involved, to alititudes of planes involved, to ammo type (a single ping on a D-hog might not even damage you, but on a similar-performing C-hog it'll kill instantly). They all play a factor. Just saying "I won I'm so good you're so bad" doesn't describe things properly, for my tastes.

Your mileage may vary.

[SlapShot]

IMO folks that claim "It's only the pilot, always the pilot, never the plane" smack of bragging and arrogance to me.

Never looked at it from that standpoint ... for me it has aways meant that it doesn't matter what the plane ... it can't do anything without a pilot ... and it's the pilot that uses his planes strengths against the other planes weaknesses to prevail when the "fight" is on.

Superior pilots can take a "disadvantaged/inferior" plane and pit it against the "advantaged/superior" plane, with an average pilot, and hand them their lunch at every engagement.

It has nothing to do with bragging or arrogance ... it's just a fact.

Bottom line ... any plane is just a machine, unable to think on it's own.

[Bucky73]

Originally posted by Guppy35

That being said, I prefer to run into the guys who know what there doing cause even if I die, I get better trying to hang with them.

And it's those knock down drag out, shaking hands afterwards, fights that make the game worth playing:aok

Couldn't have said it better myself...........well maybe, but i'm not gonna try:aok

[SkyRock]

My top 4 types of planes killed every tour are spit16's, la7's, nik's, and ponies!  Mostly they get ownt by me trusty old 1-hog!:aok

[ink]

IMHO it is the pilot that matters,

 BUT being a good pilot means that you know all the planes, strengths and weakness.

its also way more than that,  i was watching a show on ww2 fighter pilots

and the one they were interviewing{no clue of his name} was speaking about dogfighting,

i don't remember the words exactly but basically he said,

"... i don't think about what to do if a bogey does this or that,  what i do think about is where that bogey is  going to be in 2 or 3 minutes?  and how can i place my guns on him there at that moment in time..."

ever since i watched that show and heard him explain it that way,
{i mean it was way more than that, but i had to condence it for the sake of this post.}

i believe i have become a better pilot


plus skyrock showing me how to set up my stick properly was a HUGE help


skyrock
and all the other sticks who make this game great.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Krusty



IMO folks that claim "It's only the pilot, always the pilot, never the plane" smack of bragging and arrogance to me. There's far too many variables in ANY fight to say "it was the pilot" -- everything from E-state, to numbers engaged, to planes involved, to alititudes of planes involved, to ammo type (a single ping on a D-hog might not even damage you, but on a similar-performing C-hog it'll kill instantly). They all play a factor. Just saying "I won I'm so good you're so bad" doesn't describe things properly, for my tastes.

Your mileage may vary.

I don't think it's arrogance Krusty.  I think it's that there are guys who can do things with certain planes that the rest of us can't.

I fly a midwar bird, the 38G almost all the time, with the J thrown in now on SAPP nites on occasion.  When I'm chugging around down low in the G, I don't see a Spit 16 and think I'm going to lose because it's a 16.  I know I can beat the 16 unless it's flown by a good stick.  Then I'm gonna die no matter what I do because the performance difference will give them an edge to go with their skill.

There are FM2 drivers out there who I don't want to mix it up with most times though too, because I know they can do things in it that I can't keep up with.

So it's still the pilot that makes the difference to me.  To a good stick in a superior performing bird, I'm gonna be lunch.

With an average MA stick in a superior plane, I feel confidant I can still win despite the lesser performance ability of my plane.

[Gianlupo]

Originally posted by ink
ever since i watched that show and heard him explain it that way,
{i mean it was way more than that, but i had to condence it for the sake of this post.}

i believe i have become a better pilot

You surely are! Anticipation is one of the key of A2A combat.

[Sweet2th]

Originally posted by Xasthur
True for ammo conservation, but it throws your aim for other gun types.

It also teaches the new pilot to wait until 200 or less away before firing, which is where any weapons are deadly---POINT BLANK.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by ink
IMHO it is the pilot that matters,

 BUT being a good pilot means that you know all the planes, strengths and weakness.

its also way more than that,  i was watching a show on ww2 fighter pilots

and the one they were interviewing{no clue of his name} was speaking about dogfighting,

i don't remember the words exactly but basically he said,

"... i don't think about what to do if a bogey does this or that,  what i do think about is where that bogey is  going to be in 2 or 3 minutes?  and how can i place my guns on him there at that moment in time..."

ever since i watched that show and heard him explain it that way,
{i mean it was way more than that, but i had to condence it for the sake of this post.}

i believe i have become a better pilot


plus skyrock showing me how to set up my stick properly was a HUGE help


skyrock
and all the other sticks who make this game great.

thanks, Ink, and it all started with a little ego into the DA, huh.  Apparently you are getting much better, I saw you battling 5 bogies for more than 4 or 5 minutes yesterday!   and keep it up!

Mark

[bj229r]

Hmmm..spit, SUCH a tough plane.... lets see, do I yank stick HALFway back, or ALL the way back....sooo many decisions to make

[weazely]

Originally posted by SkyRock
<---------------read the Avatar!:aok

<--- read my avatar:aok

[Sloehand]

Originally posted by Carwash
can't outclimb a niki,
 

Climb rates compared with WEP on at altitudes,

Alt                   Niki             Spit16

Sea Level       4000           4700
5K                  3900           4700
10K                3000           4150
15K                2600           4150
20K                2200           3700

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by SlapShot


... for me it has aways meant that it doesn't matter what the plane ... it can't do anything without a pilot ... and it's the pilot that uses his planes strengths against the other planes weaknesses to prevail when the "fight" is on.

Superior pilots can take a "disadvantaged/inferior" plane and pit it against the "advantaged/superior" plane, with an average pilot, and hand them their lunch at every engagement.

It has nothing to do with bragging or arrogance ... it's just a fact.

Bottom line ... any plane is just a machine, unable to think on it's own.

totaly agree with this.


the natural progression as one becomes better at anything is to challenge yourself in order to get better. if you reach a certain level that you get confortable with, chances are there is something more you could be doing to move above that level of familiarity, and on to something much harder to understand...at first.