B-25

[toonces3]

Great read- it's always so interesting to read of first hand accounts.  I think sometimes it's easy to forget that at one time these planes were really flown to do the things we do for entertainment now.

One of the things I found very interesting about the B-25 was its use as a strafer in the Pacific theater.  From my reading, they were frequently used to strafe enemy shipping or fields at very low level.  With all that firepower in the nose, they would obviously be good at it, but I never really thought of using a level bomber in this role.  Further, I read that some planes had the copilot seat removed to either make more room for another gun, or more ammo.  Flying that plane single pilot must have been interesting.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Pannono
they better make it available to take off from CV without turning away from tower because thats what it did.

no

It

will

not

be

available

on

cv.

[Pannono]

well thats gay, it took off from a CV in real life, no B-24 did.

[Krusty]

Going back to a more interesing topic, it won't be a hangar queen. Why would you take a B-26, which can barely climb above 10k, can only carry 4k, but has the same guns (and half the engines) as a B24? Wouldn't 100% of bombers be B-24s? Only 75% of bombers are B-24s in this game

I see B26s quite often. The fact that folks even choose the 26 over the 24 means that the B-25 will be used often enough. If it was solely chosen based on performance we'd only have la7s, tempests, ar234s, and b-24s, nothing else in the game.

A lot of the lesser-performing planes are the more-popular ones. The B-25 will be popular, regardless of which model we get.

I know I'll use it when bombing quite a bit! It's better defended than the Ju88 I also use!

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Pannono
they better make it available to take off from CV without turning away from tower because thats what it did. ...

...well thats gay, it took off from a CV in real life, no B-24 did.

I'm surprised it took 4 full days to get that one.   You can be pretty certain that a lot of Country, Channel 200, and Forum talk will be along those lines for a couple weeks after release.


Exactly Sixteen early model B-25B Mitchell bombers flew off carrier decks for 1 raid on Tokyo.  They had much of their armor plate removed, much of their gun- mounts removed (particularly the ventral turret which was removed) additional fuel loaded aboard.

I've seen nothing to indicate HTC is going to model a B-25B.  (I've heard C/D, H, and J) I've seen no evidence that HTC has or will ever model "field conversions" or "modified" aircraft so you get what historically comes delivered from the factory.  Doolittle's Raiders were not what was delivered from the factory. We also cannot expect to see any of Major Paul Irving "Pappy" Gunn's efforts in the game.

AFAIK, a B-25B could travel 2,000 miles with a 2,400 normal pound bomb load and only 1,300 miles with a maximum bomb load of 3,000 pounds.  It was initially armed with 1 .30 caliber Browning machine gun in the nose and 4 .50 caliber Browning machine guns in top and bottom turrets.  120 B models were built and 119 were delivered to the USAAF (1 crashed en route).  

The C/D model was a major upgrade.  The G and H were ground strafer's.  The J was the last production model before the Mitchell was replaced with the Invader.  Which final maximum speed, range, climb rate, and service ceiling numbers will eventually get used in game I leave to speculation.


If we see the C/D, I expect it's usage (after a month or two of release) down in the same range as we see the B-26-B now, 1.5% more or less (probably a bit more than Marauder simply because it's new to the plane set).  If we see a G, H, or J, I expect a little more use due to ground attack role, but that depends a lot on the ord options (and limits) it gets as well.   But it's use will still be well below that seen by the B-24 and Lancs.   I also expect to see a lot of skins produced for the plane (above average) and it's incorporation into SEA events.

I also expect to see a lot of complaints about what the B-25 can't do that is expected of it by many who voted for it: be it CV-launches or limitations of 75mm armed planes (if added at all).   Some of what I've seen posted leads me to believe there are some misconceptions about the B-25.  I'd have loved to see a poll of why players voted for the planes they did vote for.

[Pannono]

Originally posted by tedrbr
120 B models were built and 119 were delivered to the USAAF (1 crashed en route).  

lol thats not a good omen

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Pannono
well thats gay, it took off from a CV in real life, no B-24 did.

No regular b25 ever took off from a cv.

List of mods that had to be made:

    * Removal of the lower gun turret
    * Installation of de-icers and anti-icers
    * Steel blast plates mounted on the fuselage around the upper turret
    * Removal of the liaison radio set
    * Installation of three addition fuel tanks and support mounts in the bomb bay, crawl way and lower turret area to increase fuel capacity from 646 to 1,141 U.S. gallons
    * Mock gun barrels installed in the tail cone, and
    * Replacement of their Norden bombsights with a makeshift aiming sight.

[Noir]

Originally posted by Movie
wats all this spam about?

Trying to sound interresting ? Respect a man life at least.


I did not vote B25 (P39 was flown by the early 9GIAP) but its sounds like a nice town buster, like use bombs on the ack then finish the job with the guns. It would make a nice LVT/PT vulcher also I'll think it will see use on MA.

[Avenger8]

A B-25H (PBJ-H) had landed on a carrier and then taken off during WWII, of course this wasn't a combat mission though.

See PBJ Mitchell Units of the Pacific War (Combat Aircraft # 40)

Flown exclusively by the US Marines, the PBJ was one of those rare examples of an air force type being procured by the navy due to its ability to do exactly the job that was required of it. Bought as a land-based patrol bomber for operations in the Atlantic and Pacific, the PBJ (Patrol, Bomber, North American) was kitted out to hunt down submarines as well as surface vessels. Identical to its air force counterpart, except for its ability to lay mines, deploy depth charges and launch torpedoes, some 706 PBJs were delivered to the Marine Corps from 1943-45. This book outlines the aircraft’s history and technology, and takes a closer look at the men who flew it.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S5813

(and of course I am not promoting this sort of activity in Aces High II)

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Avenger8
A B-25H (PBJ-H) had landed on a carrier and then taken off during WWII, of course this wasn't a combat mission though.

And if we had been forced to invade Japan (instead of the nooks), I imagine a lot of B-25's might have been transfered to the Navy and Marines for similar use, if it proved to be practical, as the USAAF was in full gear in replacing all  the B-25's, B-26's, and A20's at the time with the A-26B and A-26C Invaders by war's end on VJ day.  Medium bomber crews from Europe headed to the Pacific were all be retrained and put into Vaders for Pacific operations.  The 'Vader's landing speed was just too high to try a similar CV landing that the PBJ did.

[Wayout]

                Mid 1945 markings. 498th Squadron (Falcon) of the 345th Bombardment Group (M)

    

A replicia of his aircraft along with personal items from the war is on display at the Kalamazoo Air Museum, Kalamazoo Michigan.

Originally posted by tedrbr
The original thread also hit on one other point.  Wayout's Uncle enjoyed fighter escort and air superiority much of the time; a situation that will not come all that often in the LW arena.  The plane  saw very wide use in all theaters of WWII, and was well known for getting it's crew home with battle damage, but I don't see that translating well into the game (outside of SEA).  [/B]

  He never saw an airborne Japanese aircraft. The few times Japanese fighters opposed a raid the P-38 pilots made sure they didn't get close to the bombers.

  Every raid he was on was low level.  They used para-frags against small targers like aircraft and small buildings.  For larger targets, ships, hangers, large building they skip bombed. He said skip bombing, especially against ships, was a very effective way of putting a bomb on the target.   It would be interesting to see if skip bombing could be moldeled into Aces High.
 

[HaDeSs]

B-25 great dogfighter

And bring back (from AW) Death stars.

The reason is simple. Fun is what it counts more + they had many gunners in reality.

If someone cant hit a death star (many gunners) b17 then stay far and look
for another target

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by HaDeSs
B-25 great dogfighter
And bring back (from AW) Death stars.
The reason is simple. Fun is what it counts more + they had many gunners in reality.
If someone cant hit a death star (many gunners) b17 then stay far and look
for another target

Friends Don't Let Friends Use Shade Accounts

[Noir]

lol that threadbomber site rocks !

[usieric3]

As to the B25...
I have yet to see mentioned (though scanned quickly) that there were two versions of the 75mm used. Yes, the first was cumbersome to use, since it was a modified 75mm pack howitzer crammed in the nose. There was a specific 75mm built for the nose (believe M/T13E4 designator) which was more compact and efficient, as well as additional recoil dampeners.

Second, the Marine Attack squadrons that used the 25 had the addition of a fuel tank that could be inserted into the bomb bay when needed for extended missions. Do NOT know if this will make the cut, but who knows.

Lastly, I fly 26's quite a bit, as CV killers. The smaller wingspan allows for a tighter three-ship drop, and the speed and guns are great (relative) for exit turns, unless you get gang-banged.  

I see, and plan myself, on a great deal of 25 time. It will be a widowmaker at first (like the actual Marauder / 26 was), until YOU LEARN TO FLY IT. Too many people get disgusted too quickly when strappin on a new ship; need to get thrown from the horse a few times first.

PukinDog