Author Topic: Ju-87 G1  (Read 1661 times)

Offline Lusche

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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2007, 06:14:03 AM »
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Originally posted by wolf05
Besides... I do not think that Hitech would model the 37mm to be a one shot kill type of weapon on a tank. Maybe a couple of hits to do the job to make it a fair addition, if it were to be done.


I doubt that this would be HTC's approach. They would model a gun to real word data, not downgrading it for reasons of "fairness". If the real performance of that gun is too effective in game, it would either been perked (most probably), or limited to few bases (not probably) or even not introduced at all.

Fudging ingame performance of planes vehicles or weapons would open the Pandora's Box.
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2007, 06:42:36 AM »
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LOL Kweassa, have you ever flown one of those birds in any flight sim?


 Is this a trick question, or an insult? I've been here since AH1.05, and subscribed every single month since then.

 I've seen what the 'groundwar' was like in those days.
 Did you see what the groundwar was like in those days?



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I have, and hitting a tank even with guns blazing is not that easy to do.


 It's only difficult when you care about actually surviving an attempt. When you don't really care you die or not, every thing is easy.

 Think about that.



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If your gunnery is not that good, your going to burn up your full clip on the first pass, and not do any damage to the tank.


 Exactly.

 If your gunnery is not that good, you cannot hold a steady point of concentrated fire against such a small target as a tank - especially if it is moving or actively manuevering to not expose his weaker armour.

 That's why the Il2 or the Hurri2D needs a certain amount of skill. Anyone can aim and land a few hits on a tank. The real trick is to keep the aim steady, and keep ramming in those bullets at that same teensey weensey spot to really blow up a tank - and this is something average guys find difficult to do.

 However, the Stuka 37mm cannon is in a league of its own. You don't need a steady stream or fire, or precision to pick a spot on a tank and hit it. All you need to do is connect just one round - and the tank will be heavily damaged at least.

 Are you really trying to say a certain clandestine n00b, who just flies straight toward a tank he sees, and pulls the trigger down 2 seconds before crashing to the ground, can't even connect one single round on that tank before he dies?

 Think about why people hate kamikaze suckers running in a suicidal bomb run against a CV.

 Those dorks don't care if they die or not. All they want to do is sink the CV, and they don't evade, they don't maneuver, they don't pull out from a dive. All they do is just maneuver straight into a CV and release the bombs a few seconds before they crash into it.

 Divebombing a heavily defended CV with precision quality is difficult. Going suicidal to land a bomb on a CV is not. It's basically the same thing with the Stuka. The only difference is, the G-Stuka is like a suicidal jabo plane heading to a CV with a bomb that can take out the flattop with a single hit.


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It really doesn't matter if you have the balls to attack the tank, because the guns are not that accurate to begin with.


 You keep confusing 'accuracy', as if its a given thing, a pre-requirement.

 Accuracy is only a requirement when you intend to survive a strafing pass without crashing into a target. When you don't bother about pulling up, your rounds will always hit where you intended - moments before you plane hits it by crashing into it.

 

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I just don't feel that it would be any worse then the IL2 or the Hurri gun platforms. If you perked the Ju-87 then you would have to perk the IL2 and the Hurri.


 The Hurri2D or the Il2 doesn't have the 37mm AP round. Is this really so hard to understand?



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No disrespect to you Kweassa but I just don't agree with your prophecy of doom and gloom.


 Prophecy?

 When guns are powerful enough to cut through tank armour like knife through a butter, tanks go extinct. It's all happened before. It may seem like a 'prophecy' to those who haven't seen it, but to those who've actually experienced it before, it's merely common sense.


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In the right hands yes it will be a killer, but the average player will not do that great in one.


 The gun is powerful enough, so that it doesn't need a 'right hand' to keep a steady target to kill a tank. That's why it needs a perk in the first place.

 
 Imagine a jabo plane that has weird bomb that kills the entire town with just one hit. Any bozo can up a jabo, strap on the weird bomb, and obliterate  a whole town with just one lame kamikaze attack.

 Then imagine the Stuka 37mm shell as a 'weird bullet', and you'll get the picture.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2007, 06:58:22 AM »
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But I do not think that the Stuka I am wishing for would own any battlefield at any time, but would at least make it a bit more fun and give us another choice of weaponry.


 wolf, when a plane can kill a tank as easily as the Stuka, it doesn't become an 'another choice'. It becomes a ONLY choice, and a DOMINATING choice.



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Yes, the 37mm is a very powerful round, but you have to hit your target to make it lethal. Even some of the best in the game cannot always get the easy kill, as there are always the variables kicking in.


 Yes.

 Variables like enemy movement, covers, angles, airspeed, approach rate and etc etc.. All these variables mean something when you are about to do a dangerous low-alt strafing pass against a small object.

 However, it doesn't mean anything, nor effect anything, when the pilot doesn't take heed. The tank is moving? He's under a cover? I'm flying too low? Too fast?  

 So what?

 Just maneuver the plane and line up with a tank, and fire that shot. Ofcourse, you'll auger right after that shot, but hey, the tank is paralized. Mission accomplished.

 That's the reality of a care-free environment. It happens everyday in the MA. If we bring in the Ju87G without any perks, it'll start happening in the ground war too.


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Besides... I do not think that Hitech would model the 37mm to be a one shot kill type of weapon on a tank. Maybe a couple of hits to do the job to make it a fair addition, if it were to be done.


 Take heed to what Lusche says.

 The Mk108 30mm is a one-shot weapon. HT didn't 'compensate' for that weapon to make things 'fair'. He modelled it according what he thinks is the correct specifications.

 The difference is, the 190s and 109s gets to use the 'one-shot' MK108 against a rapidly maneuvering enemy aircraft flying 300mph in a 3D airspace.

 However, the Ju87G uses the 'one-shot' 37mm against a ground target moving at 35mph at best, against a target that's confined to 2D maneuvering.



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I still would like to see it launched from a port for defensive measures against large scale gv attacks.


 Free of perks, and it's not 'defensive measure' anymore.

 It's the doomsday weapon pointed at the heart of ground warfare in the MA.  The end result is a revert to the old AH1 days. Every body dumps main battle tanks, and goes back to using only Osties.

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2007, 07:07:46 AM »
Yes to the AT cannon Shtooka :aok

Offline 53gunner

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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 08:52:41 AM »
Yes! oh god yes! please give me the JU87G. Its all Ive wanted since I was a puppy
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Offline Stampf

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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 08:53:22 AM »
Yes, I want it too.  Throw in the solid nose cannon equipped 88, and JU52 and German half track and life will be good.:aok
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Offline Stampf

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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2007, 08:54:20 AM »
Might as well add the Panther while we are at it .:D
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Offline Fulmar

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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2007, 09:17:47 AM »
Heck why not a B-29 then while we're on a roll?!

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Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2007, 12:32:21 PM »
Personally, I'd rather have the Ju-87D-5 with the wing mounted 20mm cannons.  Perfect for dog fighting =)


ack-ack
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Offline Xasthur

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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2007, 01:04:08 PM »
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Personally, I'd rather have the Ju-87D-5 with the wing mounted 20mm cannons.  Perfect for dog fighting =)


ack-ack


That would be fun.

The G2 would be great. The slow rate of fire would make 'suicide spraying' tricky for most retards.

Also, Kweassa.... I'm wondering if you have a reference for the lethality of this round? I'm not trying to be smart-arse here, it just seems that your account of this weapon is a little more 'glowing' than what I've previously read.

It would be interesting to read what you've read on G2's cannons.



And here is the video everyone loves

-Youtube-


Oh yeeeahhhh.

Bring it. Perk it, whatever. Would be COOL.

Would give the Stuka a new lease on life too.
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Offline Lusche

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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2007, 01:10:38 PM »
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Originally posted by Xasthur

Also, Kweassa.... I'm wondering if you have a reference for the lethality of this round? I'm not trying to be smart-arse here, it just seems that your account of this weapon is a little more 'glowing' than what I've previously read.

It would be interesting to read what you've read on G2's cannons.
 


You can try this article about tankbusting guns

The only problem I have: The listed penetration is for Hartkernmunition, which used a tungsten core.
From all what I did read so far, the German tungsten supplies were so limited, that producion of anti-tank ammunition using tungsten was terminated quite early in the war.
The 87G was built from december 43 on. So did they still hat some stocks of Hartkern ammunition? Was that kin dof ammunition produced again in limited numbers? Or did the G use no Hartkern ammunition at all?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 01:18:54 PM by Lusche »
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Offline TheCage

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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2007, 05:54:13 PM »
Kweassa I was not being disrespectful in any way shape or form.   I simply asked if you had ever flown that particular plane in any combat sim.   I didn't ask how long you have been in this game.   I have been around about as long as you have.    I can dig up past doom and gloom prophecy's you have made in the past, and not one of them came true except you dead horse cheer leading to bust up the main arena.   But I say what I have to say without having to go to writing essays to never ending useless information.   But to answer your question, YES I was around in those days, but the problem was not the birds attacking the tanks, but rather the lack of cover to hide them in.   I would how ever suggest if your going to attack people you do more then just babble on.   Show me the proof that the plane will doom the game and it's vehicles more then any other plane in the plane set.  Enough said, now say what you will, I have said mine.   If it ever got into the game only time will tell if it ever would doom the game.   So flame away I don't care, but until I see facts, it's just meaningless dribble.

Offline 53gunner

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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2007, 05:59:49 AM »
Man the thing is EVERYONE knows the wheel pants on the 87 are indestructible! Just picture it people skimming the tops of tanks and ripping the turrets off. Mayhem man!

Sorry couldn't resist

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2007, 12:20:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 53gunner
Man the thing is EVERYONE knows the wheel pants on the 87 are indestructible! Just picture it people skimming the tops of tanks and ripping the turrets off. Mayhem man!

Sorry couldn't resist



sounds like WW2OL when it first launched and you could take a Ju87 down a road at 5ft of the deck and use your landing gear to knock over tanks and trucks.  Good times.


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Offline Hazard69

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« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2007, 03:02:15 AM »
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack

sounds like WW2OL when it first launched and you could take a Ju87 down a road at 5ft of the deck and use your landing gear to knock over tanks and trucks. Good times.


ack-ack



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
LOL....agh...ackh..ackh...ROF LMAO!

Good thing I never went near that "sim"
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