Author Topic: Ju-87 G1  (Read 1701 times)

Offline wolf05

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 146
      • http://jagd3udet.org
Ju-87 G1
« on: June 24, 2007, 10:16:34 AM »
I would like to see a varient of the JU-87 G1 Stuka, or at least give us a choice of carrying the twin 37mm BK 3.7 cannons on the D model which we now fly. It would give us another choice instead of the same old IL2.:aok

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Ju-87 G1
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2007, 10:34:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by wolf05
I would like to see a varient of the JU-87 G1 Stuka, or at least give us a choice of carrying the twin 37mm BK 3.7 cannons on the D model which we now fly. It would give us another choice instead of the same old IL2.:aok


Not that I won't support your wish... but it's not true we don't have another choice to the same old Il2 right now:

Hurricane IID with even bigger guns than a Ju87G ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline wolf05

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 146
      • http://jagd3udet.org
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2007, 10:51:27 AM »
Lusche<>, I know that we have the Hurri as well as the IL2 bud, but my wish is for a german aircraft that could bust tanks. I have flown the Hurri IID on numerous occasions, but like the way the Stuka handles, as well as the ord it can carry. Also, being a Lufftwaffe squadron, it would be nice just to have the choice of the JU-87 G1 over the other two tank busters.:D

Offline titanic3

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4235
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 07:32:06 PM »
i rather have the Ju-88P1 with a 75mm or the Ju-88P2 with 2x 37mm. wayore bombload than the stuka, not as agile, but more firepower.

think of it this way:

you and your squad bomb a target, head home, spot a tank or building. dive, and strafe with your cannon. any fighters that get on your 6 just kill with the 7.92mm.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15724
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2007, 08:33:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by titanic3
any fighters that get on your 6 just kill with the 7.92mm.



your kidding...
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline USRanger

  • AvA Staff Member
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10325
      • BoP Home
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2007, 09:59:25 PM »


Man, I want this!
Axis vs Allies Staff Member
☩ JG11 Sonderstaffel ☩
Flying 'Black[Death] 10' ☩JG11☩

Only the Proud, Only the Strong Ne Desit Virtus

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2007, 10:34:40 PM »
Armed with tungsten-cored, armour-piercing round, capable of upto 100mm penetration from almost any angleand distance.

 Need perks, unless you want the ground war to go back to AH1 days where any aircraft would sneeze at a tank and it'd be disabled.

Offline wolf05

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 146
      • http://jagd3udet.org
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2007, 11:13:44 PM »
Now we are talking the same language Ranger<>lol. The JU-88 does in fact carry a heavier payload, but the JU-87 is a very nimble aircraft in its own right. And yes, I would not mind if it were a perked aircraft, as it would be worth it to those who have to battle the armored onslought to protect their bases and towns from heavy armored attacks.

It would also be great if it could be launched from a port for base defense.

I am sure Hitech in his infinite wisdom could put it together, and still allow the GV battle to endure this new addition if it were ever considered.:aok

Offline Serenity

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7313
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2007, 10:05:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by titanic3
i rather have the Ju-88P1 with a 75mm or the Ju-88P2 with 2x 37mm. wayore bombload than the stuka, not as agile, but more firepower.

think of it this way:

you and your squad bomb a target, head home, spot a tank or building. dive, and strafe with your cannon. any fighters that get on your 6 just kill with the 7.92mm.


99.99999999999999% SURE you can carry the cannons OR the bombs. NOT both. Theres the weight factor, and the fact that there is a VERY limited ammount of space in those birds. ESPECIALLY European birds.

Offline titanic3

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4235
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2007, 05:33:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SpikesX
your kidding...


i blew up an spit5 with 7.92mm before...... even damaged a hurr1 sobad, he had to glide home....

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline TheCage

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 236
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2007, 08:42:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
Armed with tungsten-cored, armour-piercing round, capable of upto 100mm penetration from almost any angleand distance.

 Need perks, unless you want the ground war to go back to AH1 days where any aircraft would sneeze at a tank and it'd be disabled.



They only carried 37 rounds so you would have to be spot on to kill a tank in one.   Personally I don't think anyone who's gunnery is not that good would be very good at killing a tank with one.   Not to mention that the Ju-87 is a very slow plane and being low to the deck for tank killing, vulnerable to say the least.  Maybe someone like Ack Ack  or a few others I know of could be good in one off the bat but others will have to have some practice to actually be good in one.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2007, 08:45:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TheCage
They only carried 37 rounds so you would have to be spot on to kill a tank in one.   Personally I don't think anyone who's gunnery is not that good would be very good at killing a tank with one.   Not to mention that the Ju-87 is a very slow plane and being low to the deck for tank killing, vulnerable to say the least.  Maybe someone like Ack Ack  or a few others I know of could be good in one off the bat but others will have to have some practice to actually be good in one.


You can already practice now with the Hurri. The hurri has also the advantage of being much more maneuverable, while a 87G should be far more durable - but still would be the wrong plane to face AA fire from a Ostwind.

My guess is, would the 87G be implemented, it would see a lot of use in the first week, then radically drop to a miniscule level after people augered in droves ;)

Only a few pilots will stick to it, the rest will go back to dropping eggs on tanks or strafing them with .50cals...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 08:47:43 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 10:18:29 PM »
Quote
They only carried 37 rounds so you would have to be spot on to kill a tank in one.



 It doesn't matter if they carry only one round each. The guns, if modelled according to spec, will penetrate the armour and cause a disablement/kill against any tank in the game.

 Vets make it sound as if killing tanks with IL2s or Hurri2Ds is an easy task, but in reality both planes need a fair amount of practice and stable skill level to achieve real success as an anti-tank platform. The IL2 often requires a solid barrage of 23mms to pop a tank, and the frail Hurri2D 40mm (which is actually weaker in penetration capabilities than the IL2 23mm) needs a precise aim at a precise spot to do the same. And this task must be carried out often at deep angles with fast closure rate at low altitude.

 Out of about perhaps 4x IL2s that might buzz around a single enemy tank closing in to the town, 2~3 of them are usually average people who go crashing into a tank without being able to disable or kill it. It takes them 2~3 deaths to poke a tank in the right spot to kill it. Specialized anti-tank planes are a large threat to any ground vehicle, but the ultimate equalizer in favor of tanks is that it actually takes good skill to kill a tank. That's the reason the current ground war is more or less balanced for good gameplay.

 The Ju87G 37mm anti-tank cannon changes all that. It puts AH right back to the days of old AH1. Even 50cals would pop a Panzer tank in those days, and when GVs approached the field people upped Spitfires to kill them. As a result, the Panzer4 was all but extinct in the field, and the ground war totally consisted of only Ostwinds. The Panzer4 was a hangarqueen.


 Therefore, the need for the perk is evident. If the Ju87G is unperked, a single, terrible pilot in a Ju87G would be able to stop a whole convoy of tanks attacking a town. Approach a tank, land 1 shot on the tank and kill it, crash/auger death, reup, rinse and repeat. At least with the IL2s or Hurri2s, a sucky pilot has a low chance of disabling so many tanks in a given time.
 

Quote
Personally I don't think anyone who's gunnery is not that good would be very good at killing a tank with one.


 In a real world where people fear the kingdom come, you'd be right. However, in AH people reup. They don't need to be good with gunnery to kill a tank. All they have to do is up a Ju87G, fly to a tank until the tank fills the front windscreen, and then go kamikaze into it with guns blazing and the tank would pop. That's how powerful the 37mm is.

 People already do that with the Il2 and Hurri2D - the difference is, these guns aren't as powerful as the 37mms, and one is rarely successful in actually killing a tank.


Quote
Not to mention that the Ju-87 is a very slow plane and being low to the deck for tank killing, vulnerable to say the least.


 The very fact that the Ju87G will only be used within 5 mile radius of one's own home base, with friendly fighter planes swarming around, is already enough to negate that problem. How often do you see IL2s or Hurri2Ds flying to the enemy field 25miles away, to take out defending enemy tankers?


Quote
Maybe someone like Ack Ack or a few others I know of could be good in one off the bat but others will have to have some practice to actually be good in one.


 You don't need practice with a gun that kills any tank with a single shot at all angles, all distances. All you need is the balls to fly into a tank with guns blazing - wether or not the attempt kills you.


 And as it is, the n00bs of AH have six balls and no brain. You don't wanna encourage them.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 10:22:23 PM by Kweassa »

Offline TheCage

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 236
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 11:11:30 PM »
LOL Kweassa, have you ever flown one of those birds in any flight sim?    I have, and hitting a tank even with guns blazing is not that easy to do.   If your gunnery is not that good, your going to burn up your full clip on the first pass, and not do any damage to the tank.   It really doesn't matter if you have the balls to attack the tank, because the guns are not that accurate to begin with.   I just don't feel that it would be any worse then the IL2 or the Hurri gun platforms.  If you perked the Ju-87 then you would have to perk the IL2 and the Hurri.   No disrespect to you Kweassa but I just don't agree with your prophecy of doom and gloom.    In the right hands yes it will be a killer, but the average player will not do that great in one.

Offline wolf05

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 146
      • http://jagd3udet.org
Ju-87 G1
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2007, 11:31:33 PM »
Well said Kweassa<>, on all points Sir. But I do not think that the Stuka I am wishing for would own any battlefield at any time, but would at least make it a bit more fun and give us another choice of weaponry. I cannot tell you how many kills I have against both the Hurri II and the IL2 from main gun shots, as well as tearing them up and sending them home with my lil old pintle gun. I have also been hacked to pieces by others in GV's when I was in fact flying the same anti tank birds.

Yes, the 37mm is a very powerful round, but you have to hit your target to make it lethal. Even some of the best in the game cannot always get the easy kill, as there are always the variables kicking in. Besides... I do not think that Hitech would model the 37mm to be a one shot kill type of weapon on a tank. Maybe a couple of hits to do the job to make it a fair addition, if it were to be done. I still would like the option someday to have a choice of either the standard bombs or the 37mm to use the plane as it was intended to be used by its designers.

I still would like to see it launched from a port for defensive measures against large scale gv attacks. It would give the defenders of any port a little more of a chance to defend against the usual air and ground onsloughts that we have these days.:aok