Author Topic: Freedom Of Speech Overturned  (Read 3013 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Freedom Of Speech Overturned
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2007, 11:13:15 PM »
Let's see... nanny...a person, usually with special training, employed to care for children.

School...  an institution where instruction is given, esp. to persons under college age: The children are at school.

I wonder what would happen to a school that did not care for children?
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2007, 11:14:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Shuckins, I completely agree with refusing to let them on the bus. They are not in class.


What? sanctioning student behavior when they are not on campus?

My god you're a nazi.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2007, 11:17:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
He was on a public street off campus not while in class attendence. You support the unlimited jurisdiction theory, I see.


It ain't unlimited jurisdiction. The school system has jurisdiction over ANY student enrolled in the system while school is in session. Skip school, you're busted. I got busted for skipping school, I took the punishment like a man. He wimped out and claimed "free speech experiment" afterwards. Poor little him, ain't it sad. Sadder still as all the chumps that fall for the "free speech" B.S. excuse. He's lucky he didn't have one of my coaches for a teacher or principal. I know what I got when I got busted. He got off freaking EASY.
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2007, 11:18:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It doesn't matter if he went to school that day. Don't you get the fact that if he's supposed to be at school, and his absence is not excused, the school has jurisdiction over him? (of course not, that little fact doesn't fit your agenda so you conveniently ignore it).
Show me where he was required to be at school that day. Was he cited for truantcy? Were his parents cited?

Patiently awaiting your smoke and mirrors reply.
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2007, 11:19:56 PM »
Tell ya what rpm....teach for five years or so in a public school.  Learn what your responsibilities are as a school teacher or administrator.  Find out what you are liable for, under law, if you don't keep up with your charges.  Deal with the spoiled brats and their blocking back parents.

Then get back to us with your conclusions and observations.

The reality is this, if a child is absent a phone call must be made to the child's parents to ascertain why they are not in attendance.  If the parent doesn't know, then the child is truant, and the school's principal must attempt to determine the child's whereabouts, notifying law enforcement authorities.  If they do not do so, and the child has an accident, then the principal is in a crap-load of trouble.

That's the law.

The SCOTUS has this case pegged.  It is a matter of school authority over a truant child, not one of freedom of speech.  The ruling is exactly right.

Rest assured, freedom of speech wil survive.

Offline rpm

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« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2007, 11:20:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
What? sanctioning student behavior when they are not on campus?

My god you're a nazi.
No, refusing them access to school property while not in attendance. Would you let anybody climb on the bus that was not in class?
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2007, 11:23:02 PM »
Shuckins, was he or his parents cited for truantcy?

I'll be waiting for your song and dance after Virgil's.
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2007, 11:27:00 PM »
Few can match your two-step routine, rpm.  But are you Fred or Ginger?  ;)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2007, 11:29:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Shuckins, was he or his parents cited for truantcy?

I'll be waiting for your song and dance after Virgil's.


They don't have to be cited. He got busted, and the school punished him. A citation for truancy is not necessary. I was never cited, suspended, but not cited.

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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2007, 11:31:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
No, refusing them access to school property while not in attendance. Would you let anybody climb on the bus that was not in class?



I think that anybody on a bus is not in class.  Unless the class is in bus driving.  

The student in question is a truant student who showed at a school sanctioned activity.  You would allow a bus driver to exercise parental authority, but not another faculty member…
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2007, 11:45:48 PM »
You and I both know the difference between being in attendence and being absent from class. He was absent from class. The school made no attempt to punish him for his attenance status. He was not considered truant.

The fact you want to spin away from the core of the debate only shows your arguement's weakness.

Have any of you read the oral arguements?

Quote
But the problem ... is that school boards these days take it upon themselves to broaden their mission well beyond education or protection from illegal substances, and several of the briefs have pointed out school boards have adopted policies taking on the whole range of political issues. Now, do they get to dictate the content of speech on all of those issues simply because they have adopted that as the part of their educational mission?
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Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2007, 11:55:08 PM »
Holden, the school bus is considered to be an extention of the classroom.  Students are under the authority of both the bus driver and the accompanying teacher.  Oh, and any chaperones that may be in attendance.

I can and have barred kids from ever going on another field trip because of their conduct.

On one occasion, I took a class to a small museum in Pine Bluff to view an art exhibit.  The museum was small and there were other teachers in attendance.

We had been there about 30 minutes when one of the other teachers tapped me on the shoulder and said, "These two gentlement would like to speak to you."

I turned to face two police officers, a Mutt and Jeff duo.  The shorter of the two was absolutely livid.  He was so irate steam was roiling out of his ears.  The taller officer was the only one who talked, and was fairly polite, under the circumstances.

It seems that a few of our students had slipped off out of sight of their chaperone and found a pay phone.  In between attempts to contact boyfriends and trying to get them to come to the museum, and dialing 1-800-P U S S Y, they had made a couple of prank calls to 911.

I apologized profusely, groveling the entire time, while simultaneously assuring the officers that the miscreants would face certain retribution when we returned to our school.

I immediately cut short the tour, loaded the class back on the bus and returned to our campus, an hour and a half drive away.

Next morning there was loud and profuse weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.   Faced with the choice of suspensions or paddlings, some parents chose the latter for their little darlings.

And behinds met shoulder blades.

Our next field trip was much calmer.

Offline Silat

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« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2007, 12:54:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
I can't wait to hear you guys howl when the school dictates what you can feed your kids at home. One local district already refuses to let kids take "homemade" lunches to school. However, "Lunchables" are acceptable.


RPM dont you remember them all howling how they couldnt say Merry Christmas anymore? Its an assault on their freedoms when its them. Just not anyone elses.. LOL
The NEO CON 1000 YEAR REICH. They tried for 1 party rule and lost but they got the elitist activist court they really wanted. Even though they lied when they decried so called activist judges.
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Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2007, 01:37:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Holden, the school bus is considered to be an extention of the classroom.  Students are under the authority of both the bus driver and the accompanying teacher.  Oh, and any chaperones that may be in attendance.


I wrote it wrong then.  RPM asked me "Would you let anybody climb on the bus that was not in class?"

As a bus driver I would always have to let someone not in class get on the bus, as by your definition, they are not in class until they get on.

Quote
Originally posted by Silat
RPM dont you remember them all howling how they couldnt say Merry Christmas anymore? Its an assault on their freedoms when its them. Just not anyone elses.. LOL
The NEO CON 1000 YEAR REICH. They tried for 1 party rule and lost but they got the elitist activist court they really wanted. Even though they lied when they decried so called activist judges.


Silat, my argument is not the content of the speech, but that the school has the right and obligation to exert parental authority over student behavior.  The content of the policy they enforce is another subject for discussion.  Minors are in the care of parents and their appointed representatives because they are not yet trusted to make the mature decisions of full adult citizens.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2007, 01:41:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
RPM dont you remember them all howling how they couldnt say Merry Christmas anymore? Its an assault on their freedoms when its them. Just not anyone elses.. LOL
The NEO CON 1000 YEAR REICH. They tried for 1 party rule and lost but they got the elitist activist court they really wanted. Even though they lied when they decried so called activist judges.


There are activist judges on both sides of the fence. Funny how you never see Democrats gnashing their teeth and wailing when a liberal judge is an activist, same goes for Republicans when a conservative judge is an activist.


*edit* oops...grammer error ;)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 01:53:05 AM by Elfie »
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