lag warriors

[DoctorYO]

Well,

Lephturn sorry to raise your bloodpressure.

DoctorYO

[Lephturn]

Hey, no bloodpressure raise here.    I'm all for open discussion of the differences and what people are really seeing.  I still think my evaluation of how the process works is correct at this point, but I would be very interested to hear any other ideas.

Bloom25, could you possibly make a couple of films?  That would be great so we could all compare.  Also, you mention framerates, are the two computers different in terms of CPU, video, etc?  As you mention, the speed of the game itself could a big factor here, not the net connection at all.  Of course you would see less warping on a higher-quality connection, no argument there.  The best way to compare would be to test with two different connections on the same machine.

Thanks for the info. bloom25!

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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[bloom25]

The networked machine is a 440LX based Celeron 400 with 8MB Intel I740 card (96 MB ram).  I usually get around 20 - 40 fps on this computer.  The other is a SE440Bx-2 based Cel 366 with an ATI RAGE Pro based 8 MB card (64 MB ram).  It usually gets around 12 - 20 fps.  (My biggest annoyance with this card is it tries to render the prop, slowing framerate WAY down and making it impossible to see out the front of a fighter at times.   )  If I ever remember to turn on the film recorder, I'll go ahead and post a couple films.  (Ever notice that you usually get killed in the films you shoot, but win when you don't film?   )

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
   

[Gator]

Being a rookie, I don't know nothin' but what people tell me and I read on the internet ...

In Dawn of Aces there's one pilot who's pure death, I hate to see him on.  I hear one ping and I'm dead.     I was told that the reason for his phenomenal success against everybody else is that he's runnin' ISDN and has the two lines of hi-speed connection ...

[hblair]

Looks like the issues of netlag and all have been covered well here, so I'll comment on torques' skill.  

As TT said, Torque is just a damn good stick. When he was in WB's he would kill, kill, kill, no mercy LOL.

Back then, I had been told that he just had good aim, and if you got him one on one, he was nothing. Boy did that turn into a crock of crap.

Torque is a very good pilot with an awesome aim. Get used to getting killed by him.  

------------------
   hblair

JG77 WB's Historical Arena & Events
 
The ASSASSINS WB's Main Arena, ACA, & Aces High

 

[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 02-10-2000).]

[TT]

 They say your nobody 'til somebody accuses you of cheating. I guess torque made it before me. Crap!

[Torque]

nah...i wasn't gonna post this but what the hell eh..


Tracing route to hitechcreations.com [216.91.192.19]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    27 ms    23 ms    23 ms  24.112.248.1
  2    27 ms    23 ms    23 ms  10.1.66.1
  3    23 ms    24 ms    25 ms  r1-fe0-    0.rdc1.on.home.net [24.2.9.2]
  4    25 ms    23 ms    24 ms  bb2-ge2-0-1000sx.rdc1.on.wave.home.net [24.2.9.9
]
  5    28 ms    29 ms    29 ms  c1-pos9-3.bflony1.home.net [24.7.72.253]
  6    34 ms    35 ms    47 ms  c1-pos3-0.hrfrct1.home.net [24.7.67.210]
  7    35 ms    36 ms    35 ms  c1-pos4-3.nwhnct1.home.net [24.7.67.254]
  8    36 ms    41 ms    41 ms  c1-pos1-0.nycmny1.home.net [24.7.65.102]
  9    39 ms    41 ms    41 ms  c1-pos8-0.cmdnnj1.home.net [24.7.65.229]
 10    42 ms    48 ms    47 ms  sl-bb12-pen-0-3.sprintlink.net [144.232.8.93]
 11    79 ms    77 ms    78 ms  sl-bb11-fw-5-2.sprintlink.net [144.232.9.238]
 12    76 ms    78 ms    81 ms  sl-bb13-fw-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.166]
 13    82 ms    76 ms    77 ms  sl-gw13-fw-0-0-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.62]

 14    81 ms    83 ms    83 ms  sl-dnetfw-1-0-T3.sprintlink.net [144.228.137.6]

 15    88 ms    83 ms    83 ms  applink-1.usdlls.savvis.net [216.90.2.66]
 16    87 ms    88 ms    83 ms  hitechcreations.com [216.91.192.19]

Trace complete.


[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 02-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 02-11-2000).]

[Lephturn]

Wow bloom25, that's a really crappy framerate on the ATI machine.  I'm surprised.  Have you diddled drivers around any?  BTW, I'm running a Celery 366 with only 64Megs of RAM... but my Celery is running at 500 and I've got a V3 2000.  I get 30-50 fps.

The large difference in framerates kindof negates the comparison.  You can't tell how much of the problem is because of the crappy video card and video problems.  I'm guessing it's a lot of the problem.  On the up side, you can pick up a V3 2000 dirt cheap if you want to upgrade that box.  

And yeah, turning on the film recorder (when I remember) is the kiss of death for some reason.  

Gator, it sounds like the fellow on DoA is just a good gunner.  ISDN is pretty sucky compared to cable and xDSL, so I'm sure there are fellows with much better connections playing the game.  It's not because of his connection, he's just good.  You guys are lucky Garner hasn't been flying here lately.  

CC that TT, when they start calling you a cheater, you know you are kickin' ass.    I'll never forget flying the P47D in WB when it first came out.  After a week or so I got quite proficient in it.  The wailing and cries of "cheater" when I turned 51's into chaff was great.  Damn did it make me smile. <G>  "You out-turned my 51 in a P47!  You must be cheating!"  LOL.

BTW, Torque has a nice connect.. but it's not that fantastic.  I know there are others around with better ones.

------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-11-2000).]

[fats]

--- Lephturn: ---
And yeah, turning on the film recorder (when I remember) is the kiss of death for some reason
--- end ---

The film recorder must be the most evil invention ever. It has caused more deaths than any other entity in the game. If you see the warning of a incoming 'recording' on your screen there is no way to dodge out of harm's way. No missile is so accurate and lethal as the gun camera. It hits the target each and every time regardless of altitude, attitude or if you wave a dead chicken or not over the computer. Simply put I think the lethality, roll rate and speed of the gun camera are over modeled.


//fats

[Gator]

> Gator, it sounds like the fellow on DoA is just a good gunner.

  Yikes, I wish you hadn't said that.  I don't consider cheating a problem, but don't ask any questions on main channel since others are quick to assume that's what's going on.  But, it's a little difficult to write off one-ping kills to being a "good gunner", my experience is that those WWI kites normally take more than a lucky snap shot to go down ...

  Or am I missing packets from him showing I'm being shot?

  Like I said, I doubt anyone's cheating (it's only a game, anyway), but am surprised that it can be written off as "good gunner".

[-towd_]

i know i said i wouldent post but its a different subject. i intended no accusation of cheatin just fly several hours a nite for months and think somthin ( not induced by torq) is screwy with his connect. cause he seems to defy nature ( phisics ) hundreds of hours fightin hunderds of guys and  i didnt see this sort of stuff, with him i did so i said so  , shure that torq is a stand up guy and NOT CHEATIN ( but im gettin wideband as soon a possible)

[Lephturn]

I can't really comment on that particular situation Gator, but I am loath to call "cheat" unless I have evidence.  It is always possible that somebody finds a hack I suppose.  Shrug.  Luckily you are not talking about Aces High.  

Towd, I have one film going up on my website later today of Hristo (As Enemy) and Torque battling it out.  Torque wins, but through skill and not through any un-natural actions on his part.  All I'm saying is if you see somebody acting weird, FILM it.  When we can all check out the film, with trails on, we will be able to see exactly what you are talking about.  If there is some obvious weirdness, then we can start analysing from there.  The trails make it really easy to see warps and weird bahaviour, so it should be a good tool.  Until we see a film though, we can't be sure that it's not just your perception of things that is a bit off.  No offense meant.  



------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[Kieren]

I think Lephturn has hit what is really the core point: don't accuse anyone of cheating unless you have definitive proof.

The film recorder is the perfect tool for this.

Anything else would seem unsubstantiated and solves nothing.  

[Gator]

> I can't really comment on that particular situation Gator, but I am loath to call "cheat" unless I have evidence.

Bummer, I guess I wasn't clear.  Not sure how it may have happened, but if anyone thinks I'm talking about someone cheating, that was not my intention.  I thought I said it two times in the post that "I doubt anyone's cheating", but perhaps that wasn't clear enough.  My original post related a discussion about faster comms, and my other post was intended to question that the issue can only be "superior gunnery skills" or "cheating", since I am reluctant to dismiss that there are "technical" factors at work.

 - If I thought someone was cheating, I'd take it to "the management", with "proof".

 - That not being the case, I'm surprised that many (most?) believe it is fast comms, and others dismiss it as superior gunnery skills.

 - I am sure superior gunnery skill is involved, but I question that maybe there is something else also going on, perhaps that packets showing being shot are being discarded somewhere?

[Fishu]

I have 33.6k modem, but I have used ISDN and even cable modem, but, I didn't see bandwith give anymore advantage than reduce of ping time.
Simply, 33.6k did seem to transfer about same amount of stuff between the server and computer as cable modem or ISDN, only difference were in ping times.
Also, I have noted that in some cases, cable modem might cause your plane to have miniwarps in others FEs. (this might have something to do with lost packets, cable modems can have alot those if network is being used alot at the time)

What comes to torque, I think its just the N1K2 he flies
It's one boring kickass plane, because you really can't outturn or outrun it in a ETO plane. (kick it back to PTO, leave us ETO guys have ETO planes, our planes are not made to meet requirements to kill japs, but ETO planes.)

Gator, I can still kill him with 33.6k modem   doesn't need ISDN...