Author Topic: A Small Guide to Tankbusting  (Read 1192 times)

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« on: June 29, 2007, 01:34:22 PM »
So ords are down, VH is down and enemy tanks are rolling towards your field? Do not despair, as there are still two tools in your box that can effectively thwart any GV attack: The Il-2 and the Hurricane IID.

What does NOT work:
Strafing tanks with MG armed planes.

What does hardly ever work:
Strafing tanks with ordinary fighter cannons. While you might occasionally track a tank with huge amounts of well placed heavy gun hits, it's usually not a viable way to stop any GV. If you get the kill, it's in 99% of all cases because someone with appropriate weapons killed that tank, and you just get the credit.
(However, both MG and cannon armed fighters are fine for disposing light armoured vehicles and Ostwind flak panzers)
And please take note that the 37mm cannon of the Yak-9T is not suited to tankbusting, it is firing HE rounds.

What does work:
That being said, let's now look at our tankbusters of choice:

The Il-2  is good for attacking:
All light vehicles (M3, LVT's, M8, Jeep, M16), Ostwind and Panzer. With a bit more effort you can learn to destroy the Sherman Firefly. T34s are very hard to stop, the Tiger is impervious to the 23mm rounds.

The Hurricane IID is good for attacking:
Actually there is no vehicle in game which cannot be busted by the Hurri's 40mm cannons. But the slow rate of fire and few ammo makes hitting and killing small moving vehicles like M3's, M8's or Jeeps quite difficult. And the Hurricanes slow speed, low volume of fire and fragility makes attacking Ostwinds a sucidal undertaking, even M16 are very dangerous. Leave those two vehicles to the Il-2 or fighters.
Panzer, Sherman and LVTs are easy meat. Both T34 and Tigers are difficult targets, but far from being invulnerable.

How to do it:
Don't take much fuel. If you are defending your own base, you don't need much cruising time, and you want your plane to be as light as possible (climb rate & maneuverability). Usually 50% (or 25% in case of the Il-2) will do, though you might want to give the Hurricane 75% to give it a flight time of about 18mins.
Set your cannons convergence to close / mid range, as you want to both cannons to hit the target and that at a close range as possible. I have set the Hurri convergence to 300 and the Il-2 convergence to 250. It's not more effective to set the convergence much closer though: The steep angle required to kill M4' or Tigers makes shooting at distances under 200 yards hazardous.
Climb to 2000-3000 feet to get a overview and to spot the targets. While you are scanning the ground, don't forget to watch the airspace for enemy fighters. Ground attackers do suffer a lot from target fixation. If your base still has radar, do a quick  glance at the map to spot any inbound air cons before they suddenly appear behind your six.
When finally attacking, do only shoot with your cannons.Your light machineguns don't add any damaging capability and just clutter up your view. Exception: When attacking Ostwinds, the increased volume of fire will greatly help to take out the turret (see below).


Basically, there are two ways to attack your prey:

A) A low run on the deck, pumping your rounds at close range (D200) into your targets rear end while flying level or in a very shallow dive.
Works fine against all unarmored and armored vehicles up to Panzer / Ostwind. This is the same tactic that was used in the real world, but fails to have any impression on T34 and Tiger, and most of the time even on M4.

B) A dive onto your target, so you you pierce the top armor at a steep angle.
This is the required method to kill M4s (with Il-2 and Hurri 2D) and T34/Tiger (with HurriIID). It's also the best method to attack Ostwinds in an Il-2 because of it's open topped turret.
Try to approach your target from it's six oclock, especially when it's still moving. Look for a egress route when setting up your attack, you don't want to crash into trees or buildings, so adjust your attack approach accordingly.
When nosing over, reduce your throttle to about 1/4th. Speed kills, because it just makes pulling up early enough more diffcult. The faster you dive, the less firing time you have, too.
Like mentioned earlier, use your cannons only. As we have icons, ranging shots with MGs are not necessary. With the Hurrican IID, use single short or very short burst in case you are absolutely sure to hit, as your ammo is very limited and you don't want to waste even a few rounds. Flying the Sturmovik, you can and have to be more generous.
Aim for the turret top or the rear hull top (engine compartment). The latter is the place you absolutely want to hit a Sherman when you are flying the Il-2, as the M4 has thicker armor on its turret top. The steeper your dive angle is, the easier it is to pierce the armor. While for Panzers and M4s 30-45 degrees are usually sufficient, you will need to dive even steeper to bust T34s and Tigers. But be careful, steeper angle = huge risk of augering!

Similar to buff busting, set up your attacks properly and with patience. If you see your attack run won't probably work because your enemy starts to evade or  there is an increased risk of augering because of a botched approach, just break and get around for another approach. And don't forget your cursory glance for enemy fighters!

Appendix:

1.5MB Zip file containing three small Hurricane IID films:
Two M4s  4'25"
One M4, one Panzer 1'42"  (Originally part of a longer sortie resulting in 5 kills.)
One Tiger 2'49"

This picture illustrates the best point to aim at when attacking a Sherman Firefly:



edit: fixed the download link
« Last Edit: June 29, 2007, 02:21:30 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Fianna

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 571
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2007, 02:06:11 PM »

Offline Fianna

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 571
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2007, 02:17:31 PM »
Nice films! I've never been able to kill anything with the 2D, but maybe I'll have some luck now. Thanks Lusche.

Offline evenhaim

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3329
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2007, 11:36:52 PM »
great stuff
Freez/Freezman
Army of Muppets
I could strike down 1,000 bulletin board accounts in 5 seconds.
You want ownage, I'll give you ownage! -Skuzzy
I intend to live forever - so far, so good.

Offline toonces3

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 799
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2007, 12:27:59 AM »
Lushe,

Thank you very much for the useful guide.  Speaking for myself, this actually answered alot of questions.



I was serious on ch. 200.  A guide to Buff Busting would be welcomed.  And yes, I already know not to attack from low 6 o'clock.

Vr,
Toonces
"And I got my  :rocklying problem fix but my voice is going to inplode your head" -Kennyhayes

"My thread is forum gold, it should be melted down, turned into minature f/a-18 fighter jets and handed out to everyone who participated." -Thrila

Offline Daubie

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 249
T-34
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2007, 03:43:57 AM »
I tank alot with T-34.  I like the views out of it and it is fast.  The turret gun does very well.  It alone and 100 rounds HE will level a town.  VH hangers go down with 18 hits, even far out.  AP rounds to town structures are 3 or 4 rounds to one kill; HE is 2 for 1.

I find very good pilots know just where to aim to kill my tank very, very easily, even with machine guns, I think.

PO's me!!  Point blank I hit a Panzer with AP rounds in the turret and does squat.  One round from him kills me.  I find that is true most of the time with all the toys in here.  One round usually kills me.  I think some guys have played this game so long they know the weak spots in each vehicle, plane, etc. to make short work of intended target even from way, way out.  I also think quality of PC and especially the graphics card is the difference with older PCs at least with tanking, anyway.

I just discovered it is possible to setup the views all around in a Sherman to see as good as I do with T-34.  Page Up will get one's head out of the armor plate, though likely more vulnerable to a hit.  I still need to experiment with the other tanks.

I tank a lot, but I'm still noobie at it.

Thanks for the tute.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: T-34
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2007, 10:10:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Daubie
Page Up will get one's head out of the armor plate, though likely more vulnerable to a hit.  


Your position is irrelevant. You won't die more easily because you changed your view with PgUp. Same as being in commanders (pintle gun) position doesn't make you more vulnerable at all.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Delirium

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7276
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 10:26:58 AM »
Thanks Lusche!

I'm hardly a ground pounder, but I read your thread yesterday and decided to give it a shot. I approached a M4 with a near 70 degree dive and popped it with just 2 shells from a HurriD.

Thanks for the write up. :)
Delirium
80th "Headhunters"
Retired AH Trainer (but still teach the P38 selectively)

I found an air leak in my inflatable sheep and plugged the hole! Honest!

Offline SkyGnome

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 108
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2007, 01:25:07 PM »
Awww.. you're not very nice to the Yak9T. ;)

It'll do anything that the 23mm can do, in my experience.  While it's hard to actually pop a panzer, it can track or smoke them pretty regularly.  Against the lighter armored vehicles it is almost 100% deadly, and very easy to aim (esp compared to the 40mm).  I need to try your M4 hit spot, but this is an outrageously powerful gun (actually has greater projectile mass than the 40mm with much much higher muzzle velocity,) even if it does apear to be the poster-child for under-modeled weapons in AH.

It's also not a bad dogfighter should the situation turn that way. :)

Offline rauchen

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 64
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2007, 04:18:50 PM »
Yesterday was my very first tank kill with the Hurri 2D and I was going to post some tips, but you beat me to it!  And you did a more thorough job.

I tried both the IL-2 & the Hurri 2D.  Shooting the turret top and deck behind it was the key for me.  I stopped wasting rounds firing low at the side going for the treads first.

I'd like to add this tip:

In the IL-2 use F3 to get the external view as the internal views are TERRIBLE! Switch to internal view on the run in.

And I second the following:

* As for the steep angle - YES - 45 degrees is about the best I can do - otherwise it's auger city.

* I check my 6 on the roll in & roll out just in case someone's snuck in on me.

* I prefer the Hurri 2D to the IL-2 because I can dogfight in it.  There's nothing better than taggin an La-7 with 2 40mm rounds.  The La-7 looks gigantic after shooting at an M-4 turret.

Now about those Osties - How do you kill one without a partner to draw fire?  I'll take a run at an M-16, but you fly down the barrel of an Ostie & you don't last long.

Shmoken

Offline SkyGnome

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 108
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2007, 04:33:09 PM »
Wanted to correct my post, regarding the projectile weight of the 37mm.  It's not heavier than the 40mm - I was reading the info too carelessly (though it does still have significantly greater muzzle energy.)  Too late to edit...

As long as I'm replying, in regard to killing osties, it's pretty dicey in anything.  Again I'd say that the yak is better suited to it than the dedicated ground killers, as it has a very small frontal area, much higher speed, and greater accuracy at 6-800 yards.  It's not like the IL2's armor is really meaningful against an otsie, and trying to hit one meaningfully at range with convergence is a bear.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2007, 04:36:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rauchen
Now about those Osties - How do you kill one without a partner to draw fire?  I'll take a run at an M-16, but you fly down the barrel of an Ostie & you don't last long.

Shmoken


If I have the time and situation permits, I will circle the Ostie just waiting for an opportunity. Usually the ostie driver won't just sit there and wait for you. Either he is already driving or he will start to. Watch his path. You can often tell when he is distracted, either by navigating around hills or trees, or when he ran into an obstacle. At this point, he can no longer steer his tank from the gunners position. Even if he is still moving and in the turret view, his fire will be impaired to some degree by his own movement.

As with other tanks, do a steep dive. This reduces the probability that your rounds will strike the turret side armor intead of goin into the open top, increases your own speed (=less time to being fired at) and finally the steeper angle is more difficult to track for the Ostwind's gunner.
My own "secret" trick is not to put my nose directly at the Ostwind while diving, I am rather diving onto an imaginary point about 10-50 ft away to the left or right. This way I don't fly directly into his line of fire. Basically giving the enemy gunner an additional angle to track, which is rather hard to detect for him. When I'm about 800 ft away, I kick in rudder to get my nose pointed at him and blaze away. (I have rudder pedals, so I can correct smoothly)
Of course I don't do that when in a Hurri 2D ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23888
      • Last.FM Profile
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 12:53:24 PM »
Shameless bump for inquiring minds ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Decrepus

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2007, 01:14:12 PM »
Thanks again Lusche.

So far I've only gotten one tank kill - with a pair of 250kg bombs. There was a big air battle around tanktown so me and my wingman brought bombs to drop on targets of opportunity on our way into the fight.

My first run I killed a PzrIV. In ubsequent runs I have failed to cause any damage and have even been hit with the main gun on the T-34 and killed instantly.

I have a long way to go with CAS and getting as much information on the subject as possible has been great- thanks (again again?).

Offline McDeath

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
A Small Guide to Tankbusting
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2007, 02:13:51 PM »
Nice write up dude :)
flying as                     
Voudou  III/JG11 BOG
71Sqn./USMC
When we are done with you, you are going to wish your Daddy pulled out early!
"Then throw caution to the wind, buy a one way ticket to furball city and pop