Author Topic: Corsair 101  (Read 1599 times)

Offline HoseNose

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Corsair 101
« on: July 08, 2007, 09:58:16 PM »
Hello, ladies and gentlemen,

New to this game and I just need a few (more like a lot) of pointers on flying my favourite aircraft, the F4U Corsair. More specifically, the F4U-1A/D. I already use a lot of flaps, gear (or speedbrakes) and i can use basic maneuvers like the rolling and flat scissors.

I'd like to learn how to dodge an e/a that's closing in at a similar speed from about 6 o clock, or even better from directly above (when they're really fast, it's easier to make 'em overshoot but when they're only a bit faster than me, ouch). Everytime I try, I end up using flaps and I lose tonnes of speed and energy. Any fancy jinks?

Thanks!

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2007, 10:49:30 PM »
First, in regards to landing gear make sure that if you kick them out it's not for very long (I rarely do it for more than a second at a time). In a committed turning battle they're not going to help much. Use them in dives to prevent overspeed, and as a last-ditch attempt to force an overshoot, but otherwise.

When I have altitude and range to work with, with an enemy diving on my 6 (anything other than from directly above) I let him close to between 1 and 1.5k out, then roll hard either a Split S or a low Yo-Yo and try to pass back underneath him. In theory, he'll have too much E to follow and will have to pull out of his dive to reposition. During the interim, you can either go nose-down and use the Hog's dive speed to withdraw, or try to neutralize his altitude advantage (this works best if he has a high rate of closure so he can't reverse on you as quickly).

Often I'll follow up my first Split S/low Yo with another one to reverse again. If the bad guy was dropping on me with enough airspeed he may have overshot his dive and blown a significant amount of E trying to pull out. He's likely now below me and handed me the E advantage, so I can drop in behind him. Depending on what and who you're matched up with, you can generally turn the tables within 2-3 passes, if not on the first one outright. Watch out doing this against Typhoons and Tempests, though. Something is seriously punked with their flight model, as I've seen them pull off some ludicrous cornering at speeds well over 400-500mph and manage to pull enough lead for the shot. Otherwise, it works against virtually anything that has a slight or significant altitude advantage/airspeed advantage.

If your opponent is at roughly equivalent altitude and speed, enter a nose-low turn in one direction and keep vis on your target. It doesn't need to be a high AoA turn. This will allow you to build up speed, and pull your opponent in closer (the biggest problem with trying to reverse on a guy at long range closing on your six, is that if you get around on him, 99% of the time you'll end up eating lead from a HO). Once he's closed in (again, usually about 1k should do the trick) execute a hard nose-low break (again, doesn't need to be a Split S, a low Yo will work, as well). continue pulling through the bottom of your maneuver and go vertical. Square up your opponent in the center of either your up or forward-up view and keep him there as you come over the top. Roll as you pull through to keep your target centered. Executed properly, your opponent will lose you below his forward view when you make your break, and if he maintains his turn as you come over the top (You should be in something not unlike a barrel roll) it should drop you into position for a shot.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline kilz

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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2007, 11:02:29 PM »
SAX has it covered
Former LTARkilz

R.I.P 68KO, TailSpin, Maj1Shot, Prop31st, SWfire, rodders, Vega, easy8, 11Bravo, AWMac, GMC31st, Stoliman, WWhiskey

Offline HoseNose

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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2007, 11:04:56 PM »
Woah. good idea. I should work on perfecting that low-yoyo. funny how the high one is no prob but i barely use the low. Thanks sax! Any awesome films?

Btw, what are the main differences between the in-game F4U-1D vs. F4U-1A in terms of dogfighting efficiency?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 11:17:41 PM by HoseNose »

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2007, 11:53:58 PM »
They're fairly similar, however the F4U-1A is faster at all altitudes (the bomb pylons on the F4U-1D are permanently fixed and add drag) and a better turner. Climb rate and acceleration are too close to make any real difference. The F4U-1A also has the wing fuel tanks, so has greater range on internal fuel (meaning more loiter time at the target).

Of the two, IMO the 1A is the better choice as a pure air-to-air machine. Take the D if you're going out to bomb stuff. However, when you get down to it both aircraft can more or less be flown the same in a dogfight, though the extra speed gives the 1A slightly more options.

If you're going anything over a sector I recommend taking 75% internal gas in the 1A. A sector or less you can take 50%. In both cases burn the left and right wing tanks down to 1/8 first, (in that order) then burn the main tank until dry. I usually cruise at 15k, which will generally puts me at LEAST co-alt with other newcomers to a fight, (especially P-51s) and especially puts me in a position to hunt buffs if I'm heading in to defend a base. Use the wing tanks as "go home gas" and as a reserve just in case your main tank gets perforated. With cruise settings you can get a good sector or more from 1/8 gas in each wing. I'll generally start heading for home when my main tank is around 1/8 if I've got plenty of friendly cover, more if I need to make a fast exit.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline HoseNose

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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 12:11:06 AM »
Ah I see. I just tested some settings. The F4U-1D is slightly lighter when both are @ 25% fuel and full ammo. 11,109 lbs. vs the F4U-1A's 11,280 lbs.
So those pylons are actually making it turn worse? Strange.

hah and I'm still trying this low yoyo. Wow did NOT know I couldn't do it. I feel kinda sped now. :D

Offline lagger86

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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 07:09:42 AM »
very good advice, thanks. I fly the F6F mostly, but have a desire to learn the F4U's. I occasionally run into some corsair pilots that just outright amaze me. I really think that when used to their potential there are few planes in this game that can match it. I just can't seem to grasp the F4U's flight characteristics that make them so lethal in the right hands. I guess I'll keep trying and reading the written word of the pro's.
Lagger

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 07:37:23 AM »
Hose: That's because at 25% fuel the F4U-1A is carrying more gas than the 1D.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Krusty

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2007, 08:58:44 AM »
If you take 100% in the D-hog, and  100% in the 1A, but then burn all gas in wing tanks so it only has the main tank (exactly the same as the Dhog) do they turn the same? Is the weight difference the only reason?

Offline HoseNose

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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2007, 10:25:32 AM »
That's what i was wondering. the 62 gallons in each of the wing tanks should make the 1A turn worse, not better. If i burned all the fuel down to the main tank, then they should be of similar weight but I was wondering if the -1D turned better since it does not have wing tanks. But something that's weird - the two planes are EXACTLY the same weight when void of fuel and ammo as i tested ... quite strange. 10,010 lbs.

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 10:42:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
...
When I have altitude and range to work with, with an enemy diving on my 6 (anything other than from directly above) I let him close to between 1 and 1.5k out, then roll hard either a Split S or a low Yo-Yo and try to pass back underneath him. ...


Just to clarify this in my mind, Sax -- when you talk about reversing and doing a low Yoyo, would that look like an off angle split S?
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Offline Saxman

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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 12:36:02 PM »
Sim: Yeah. At least, that's always the description I'VE been given of a low-Yo, something at any angle between a level break turn, and a full split-S.

Hose/Krusty: The wing tanks primarily affect the 1A's rate of roll. There's something else in effect, but WW's calculations when the 1A first came in show she has the tightest turning radius of all the F4Us (marginally better than the -1, more pronounced than the 1C/D and 4).
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:39:13 PM by Saxman »
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline FBplmmr

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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 03:48:29 PM »
I've been trying to make the switch from Hellcat to corsair (1 and 1a)
and its taking more time than I expected.

I suspect it's because I was always trying to gain speed in the Cat before the merge and in the Hog I may be carrying to much in?


I really like the extra speed in the corsair, that allows me to reel in those guys that seem to want to check out when the going gets tuff

:lol

in the Cat I usually opened with the Immel and standard ops was wep on the way up- flap to bring it over then chop throttle and flap flap flap on the way down .. wepp back up by then Im getting ready to take off someones tail.(situations vary but without being in the fight right now I'm pretty sure thats how i did it)

(the exception to that was when fighting AKDogg in his corsair lol Slapshot in his fm2)
(when I fight them i just look out the back window and think "how the heck did they do that?":confused: )

ps I also cannot resist Zeke and Hurri bait , and until my last days i will continue to try to outturn them.. no, it does not usually go well:cry

Offline Saxman

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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 04:37:00 PM »
Both Zekes and Hurricanes you can easily use the vertical against as neither will climb with the F4U. Enter a climbing spiral and you should be able to bleed them of E, then kick inside rudder to drop on them when they have to nose-down to regain airspeed while they're wallowing.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Simaril

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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2007, 06:31:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
Both Zekes and Hurricanes you can easily use the vertical against as neither will climb with the F4U. Enter a climbing spiral and you should be able to bleed them of E, then kick inside rudder to drop on them when they have to nose-down to regain airspeed while they're wallowing.


Both of these give me fits in F4U -- I had resigned myself to just staying fast. When I try to spiral climb on a zeke, it always seems able to make up the difference by cutting inside my circle. Are you doing this spiral with nose up, full flaps and maximum turn?
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

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