cherry pickin?

[Zazen13]

I never quite understood why cherry picking has any kind of stigma attached to it. It is a fundamental tactical concept in fighter combat in everything but simplistic 1 vs 1 engagments . Heck, even clearing your wingman's 6 is cherry picking. The vast majority of tactics require a set-up of some sort for the benefit of your wingie(s). If you've ever read Shaw you'll know 2/3rds of the fighter tactics diagramed involve setting up kills for your friend(s). I won't even mention the fact 80% of all air combat kills in WW2 were against foes that never knew what hit them...

Without a healthy dose of opportunists looking to cherry pick, there'd be no reason to have good SA and no reason not to just target fixate on one con even in very complex engagements. That would not be very fun for very long. Having to split your attention between your prey and potentially being someone elses prey is part of the adrenalin rush of virtual fighter combat. Take that away and you'd basically have mortal combat with airplanes (aka the DA)...I'm sure that'd be fun for about 3 or 4 minutes...

I will cherry pick anyone who lets me, but I will say those with great SA I very rarely cherry pick. So, if you're getting picked alot the problem is your SA not the opportunistic bastards that are exploiting your lack thereof...

[Vulcan]

I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Vulcan
I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.

Yep.

[CAP1]

Originally posted by Vulcan
I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.

know what i do when i see them? i fly right to the nearest friendly base and circle in the ack till he gets bored  circlin me while i circle in the ack:O
or even more fun.....if they're REALLY focused on me, i fly towards a friendly ammo factory, or troop facility, or a radar facility....anything that'll nail him with puffy ack....its REALLY fun to watch em kinda jerk initially when the first oine goes off near em:rofl

<>

john

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Vulcan
I tend to think of a cherry picker as someone who refuses to engage you until you are tied up with someone else. You come across them every now and then, they'll circile high in a pony, watching, and not even try to engage until you are well and truely busy.

Agreed.  These are the people who are more interested in getting kills than in having good fights.

- oldman

[VWE]

Had a little duel with akELFY this morning, he did not respect the mossie... he does now.

[storch]

Originally posted by VWE
Had a little duel with akELFY this morning, he did not respect the mossie... he does now.

[P47Gra]

Originally posted by CAP1
i can tell ya what......the sortie just before that, i had a spit in on me....i mis-judged my own e, and stalled at the top of an immel......he had me....smoked #2 engine, and damaged my cannon and 2 guns....i dove away from hin once i regained control....he didn't follow, so i started to re-climb to the fight....i get up there, spot this jug about 5k away.....i paid him no mind as i figured he'd go for a lower easier target..i wanted that spit......whelp....next i know, the jug's only 1.5k bearing down hard....i turned into him to give only a small profile....and he didn't go for the HO.......i was able to come over the top only about the same time he did, we passed again, then he saddled up on my 6.....i was doing EVERYTHING i could think of to lose him......i did a left shallow diving turn, about 90 or so degrees, then went into a shallow right rolling climb....this almost always seems to force an overshoot outta the faster guys.....he shot the crap outta me as i came over the top of the roll, ALMOST overshot, but stayed glued to me. it took him only a few more seconds to remove important things required for flight from my poor p38.....

so needless to say.....caop has much more respect for the jug now......btw......its pilot was redtop<<>>awsome fight dude!


john

Yeah, I have been shot down by him in the past.  He is evil in the Jug.  I can only wish to be that proficient.

Jugman

[68ROX]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 68ROX
Must be a VERY LOW flying rook.


68ROX
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Care to test this theory out?



Ya know Masher, on a whim Sunday afternoon, I decided to do some research on rook "Altmonkeyism" and take off from a far rear base in a p47 with all drop tanks.

I found Rooks:

B17's = 31,000
Yak9 = 30,000
Numerous (over 20) mixed bag of planes (mainly corsairs and spits) = 25,000+

Over their own base = 20,000

I did see 5 rook planes below 5,000 attacking a knight base.

I guess it's worth it for them to spend 45 minutes climbing into the stratusphere to have the alt advantage.  Hey...it's their 15 a month.

Go figure.

68ROX

[BBBB]

Originally posted by Delirium
You were about twice as high as anyone that should of been in ANY arena.

Sometimes, I wish AH had an hourly subscription rate so this wouldn't be an issue.

Says who? Where is the rule that says you have to be at a certain alt to fight? It is his 15$s he can fly like he wants. If he wants to come in at 17K then so be it. Cherry pickers are like La-7 drivers. They are easier than a hooker on forth street once you learn how to counter them.

 What I don't like are all the self righteous types dogging someone else because  that person flies his cartoon plane a different way. So what you fly low on the deck. Who cares? What does it matter if someone climbed to 22K feet before entering a fight?

 This is a game. It is not real. If you get killed by a alt weenie, cherry picking, la-7 dweeb...guess what? It is OK. Here at AH the fuel is always flowing and we have planes on tap. No biggie.


-Spot

[dedalos]

Originally posted by BBBB
Says who? Where is the rule that says you have to be at a certain alt to fight? It is his 15$s he can fly like he wants. If he wants to come in at 17K then so be it. Cherry pickers are like La-7 drivers. They are easier than a hooker on forth street once you learn how to counter them.

 What I don't like are all the self righteous types dogging someone else because  that person flies his cartoon plane a different way. So what you fly low on the deck. Who cares? What does it matter if someone climbed to 22K feet before entering a fight?

 This is a game. It is not real. If you get killed by a alt weenie, cherry picking, la-7 dweeb...guess what? It is OK. Here at AH the fuel is always flowing and we have planes on tap. No biggie.


-Spot

Very true, but that does not mean we cant make fun of him.  There are no fights at 17K or 22K, so if you want to waste your time to clime upthere only to dive for 10K to spoil some one elses fight so be it.  Its your money.  We will just make fun of you because that is how we want to spend our money

Oh, and we will make sure we tell you how stupid that is.  Wana know why?  Look above lol

[Lusche]

Originally posted by dedalos
There are no fights at 17K or 22K,

Not true.
They are rare, but do happen, though one of the two pilots will almost always immediately dive to the deck.
(Which may in itself be a success for the other pilot, if his mission was to clear the path for an own raid at somewhat lower altitude).

What I do regulary encounter and kill at that altitudes are bombers, so there IS a reason to fly that high.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Lusche
Not true.
They are rare, but do happen, though one of the two pilots will almost always immediately dive to the deck.
(Which may in itself be a success for the other pilot, if his mission was to clear the path for an own raid at somewhat lower altitude).

What I do regulary encounter and kill at that altitudes are bombers, so there IS a reason to fly that high.

Yes, if you are looking for bombers or the ocasional no risk taking cherry picker.  However, that is not why most people go up there.  So, what happens when 2 cherry pickers meet?  They both split-S and go out of range.  So, no, no fights upthere (excluding exceptions).  Thats not where you would go if you were looking to fight.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by P47Gra
Yeah, I have been shot down by him in the past.  He is evil in the Jug.  I can only wish to be that proficient.

Jugman

i can tell ya what......the sortie just before that, i had a spit in on me....i mis-judged my own e, and stalled at the top of an immel......he had me....smoked #2 engine, and damaged my cannon and 2 guns....i dove away from hin once i regained control....he didn't follow, so i started to re-climb to the fight....i get up there, spot this jug about 5k away.....i paid him no mind as i figured he'd go for a lower easier target..i wanted that spit......whelp....next i know, the jug's only 1.5k bearing down hard....i turned into him to give only a small profile....and he didn't go for the HO.......i was able to come over the top only about the same time he did, we passed again, then he saddled up on my 6.....i was doing EVERYTHING i could think of to lose him......i did a left shallow diving turn, about 90 or so degrees, then went into a shallow right rolling climb....this almost always seems to force an overshoot outta the faster guys.....he shot the crap outta me as i came over the top of the roll, ALMOST overshot, but stayed glued to me. it took him only a few more seconds to remove important things required for flight from my poor p38.....

so needless to say.....caop has much more respect for the jug now......btw......its pilot was redtop<<>>awsome fight dude!

John

You both are very nice....But there are SO many in this game that outclass me in the JUG its scarey.

Hajo...Blukitty...YUCCA...Fre nchy....Nomde....Husky....bas ically any of the 56th guys.....BatfinkV....JensK... .and this list goes on and on. THEY are the reason I even TRIED the Jug to begin with.

It's just a fun ride to be in. I have had some fights that lasted what seemes like forever. Hands sweating....arsm tired...eyes strained...legs going a 100 mph...and when your done you sit back...WIN or LOSE and just think...WOW that was a frikin blast.

I have had some HI alt fights with Ponies , 109's and 190's that basically they dove away and I didn't chase. Alot I did.

This game just brings out some great fights at times...No HO's on the merge and just some Throttle choppin , flap droppin , scissor rolling yo yo fun.

to you 2 for making it that way.

[CAP1]

Originally posted by 68ROX
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 68ROX
Must be a VERY LOW flying rook.


68ROX
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Care to test this theory out?



Ya know Masher, on a whim Sunday afternoon, I decided to do some research on rook "Altmonkeyism" and take off from a far rear base in a p47 with all drop tanks.

I found Rooks:

B17's = 31,000
Yak9 = 30,000
Numerous (over 20) mixed bag of planes (mainly corsairs and spits) = 25,000+

Over their own base = 20,000

I did see 5 rook planes below 5,000 attacking a knight base.

I guess it's worth it for them to spend 45 minutes climbing into the stratusphere to have the alt advantage.  Hey...it's their 15 a month.

Go figure.

68ROX

sheesh....lucky that i wasn't too low at only 17k!:O

so now ya see why i was up there........