Author Topic: C47 turn radius (Read 765 times)

Spatula · « **on:** July 10, 2007, 08:56:46 PM »

I noticed something in a film the other day. It was a C47 turning tighter turn circles than a spit. I think it was a spit 16. The C47 was turning some impressive turns.
So i did a test in offline mode. Flew the C47 25% gas and did circles over the hangar pad just above it so i wasnt loosing alt and kept turning till my speed leveled off. I also used 1 notch of flaps.
Then i repeated with the spit 16 25% gas, but without the use of flaps.

What i notice is the C47 has a tighter turn radius than the spit16.
Here's the C47 birds-eye shot

And the Spit16 birds-eye shot

NOTE: im not saying that anything is necessarily wrong with either aircrafts flight model. I just find this result curious - the C47 turns tighter circles than the spit16.

Comments??

Lusche · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2007, 09:15:54 PM »

Well, a quick glance at the few number I have available seems to tell me, that a empty C-47 has a wingloading even lower than the Spit VB...

Spatula · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2007, 09:30:48 PM »

It was 25% gas, and 10 troops. Havent done the weight check or any calcs re wingloading.
Also with the twin engines will make it more stable at slower speeds too.

moneyguy · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2007, 09:47:11 PM »

try it with full power and full flaps. almost turns on its wingtip. its a good defesive move against faster, desperate cons that will do anything to kill the goon. also pisses them off when it takes 3 or 4 passes to do it.

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:16:28 AM »

Historically it probably had a breaking point of 1.5 Gs

I don't think some planes are modeled correctly in this game

Wmaker · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:46:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Historically it probably had a breaking point of 1.5 Gs

I don't think some planes are modeled correctly in this game

Most conventional planes in this world like the C-47 will be able maintain its max. sustained turn rate/radius without structural failure or excessive stress to it's airframe. As a matter of fact it won't come even close to the max. allowed G-loading.

Serenity · « **Reply #6 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:55:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by moneyguy
try it with full power and full flaps. almost turns on its wingtip. its a good defesive move against faster, desperate cons that will do anything to kill the goon. also pisses them off when it takes 3 or 4 passes to do it.

Ive landed 3 kills in a C-47. Barrel-rolled, looped, and snap rolled two La-7s and 1 Spitfire mk XVI into the ground over TT in LWBlue one night... Took a screenshot but lost it when my old computer crashed

Knegel · « **Reply #7 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:04:06 AM »

Hi,

in a sustained turn it depends much to the excess thrust, which plane turn more tigh. Although the C47 has less wingload, it had a very high drag, while the engine power wasnt the best, the flaps make this even worse. With only 25% power and 1 stel flaps the C47 shouldnt have much power left to bank the plane without altitude lost, as result the turn cant be very good actually i doubt the fully loaded C47 was able to make a sustained turn with max AoA(max CL) at all.

Same count for the Spitfire, so its a bit difficult to say if this is ok or not.

Its also not visible if the turn was a sustained turn(constant speed and altitude), or if the planes still did decelerate or left altitude.

Make the same with max power, then we know that the Spit have a by far better power load and excess thrust and that its able to turn with its max AoA, i have no doubt that the Spit should turn more tight and with a faster turn rate in a sustained turn with full power.

Though, in a decelerated turn the C47 should win, cause its better liftload, specialy, if we dont need to care for a G-force limit.

Greetings,

Knegel

Spatula · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2007, 05:13:44 AM »

They were sustained turns at 100% power (MIL). I kept turning until speed level led off while maintaining altitude - took about 2 complete turns. Film trails dont last long enough to show that in those pix.

I was just suprised. The C47 in civilian clothing was the DC3 passenger aircraft, you just dont expect 'passenger aircraft' to have better turn radius' than a pure-bred fighter. This is just my impression, anyways. Like i said this isnt a complaint or witch-hunt, just an observation

Viking · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2007, 05:25:48 AM »

Put a little two-stroke engine on a sailplane and it will out turn anything. Excess power is only a factor if wing loading is in the same ball park.

Knegel · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2007, 09:59:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Viking
Put a little two-stroke engine on a sailplane and it will out turn anything. Excess power is only a factor if wing loading is in the same ball park.

Hi,

a glider is made to fly and turn almost without thrust. The very smal wingload, the extreme aspecratio and the airfoil have a very good CL and so a very smal induced drag as result, never the less also this plane dont will have a very tight SUSTAINED turn with this smal engine, as long as there is no termic, which alone would be enough to maintain a sustained turn.

In a sustained turn excess power is often more worth than lift, specialy for "underpowered" planes like the fully loaded C47, simply cause the plane even have problems to climb with its max AoA without altitude lost, so it never will reach its max lift while a sustained turn(constant alt and speed).

Most tight turn and min radius while a sustained turn are a very big different. One is related to the lift/load, the other is in big degree related to the excess thrust(no thrust = no sustained turn).

Hi Spatula,

i did missunderstand "25% gas", so both had 100% power. Whats about the same without flaps for the C47?? The flaps in AH dont seems to work ok.

Greetings,

Knegel

RAIDER14 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:53:55 PM »

C47 can also do loops:D

Capt.Joe · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:59:22 PM »

Thats and interesting find Spatula. And that was only with 1 notch of flaps correct? I wonder what it can do with full flaps and a little more E...

<-----woot! 100th post!

Bodhi · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2007, 02:39:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Historically it probably had a breaking point of 1.5 Gs

I don't think some planes are modeled correctly in this game

The pilot's manual gives the Max G load of 5 G's.

Wmaker · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2007, 04:55:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Historically it probably had a breaking point of 1.5 Gs

Just one more thing to consider on this note...at 1.5G max. even moderate/strong turbulence would make the structure to fail. C-47 is actually a very tough plane. I've seen it doing ~3-4G pull up following a short roughly 45 degree zoom climb.