Recovering from a flat spin?

[DoNKeY]

Well I happened upon a b24 formation somewhere around 25-30k and before i shot two down i took some damage.  Not sure exactly what the damage was (forget) but i had an engine smoking, pilot wounds, and I think that was the worst of it.  Anyway I got into a flat spin, with no forward speed.  I could not recover it, not matter what I did, and trust me you can try quite a bit of stuff when you have 25k to kill.  I was in a 38L which is what i primarily fly so if i could get suggestions on that I would appreciate it.

[Saxman]

Eject, Maverick, and make sure you clear the canopy on your wait out.

[CAP1]

Originally posted by DoNKeY
Well I happened upon a b24 formation somewhere around 25-30k and before i shot two down i took some damage.  Not sure exactly what the damage was (forget) but i had an engine smoking, pilot wounds, and I think that was the worst of it.  Anyway I got into a flat spin, with no forward speed.  I could not recover it, not matter what I did, and trust me you can try quite a bit of stuff when you have 25k to kill.  I was in a 38L which is what i primarily fly so if i could get suggestions on that I would appreciate it.

you were about 4 times as high as you needed to be.....there's never anything up there:O

seriously.......a couple of things could've happened........the 38 is common to lose its tailbooms in combat...in here anyway...or at least to me it is:rofl , so if you lost them, you had no chance of recovering. if you filmed it, you can watch the film and you'll be able to see if thats what happened. if it was something you did wrong.......first off make sure auto combat trim is off....it fights you in the 38. i think in the 38, if all your important parts are stilll there, then throttle full, stick foward, and rudder opposite the spin. sometimes you may have to work the throttle..and make sure flaps fully retracted......other than that, i can't think of anything else......

ooo...good job on killin 2 of em....i give 24's a wide berth, as i almost always die when attackin them in the 38......
good luck!!!!

<>

john

[DoNKeY]

Hmm I think I have auto ct on, so I'll have to turn that off...   yeah thats why I love the 38.  Stay back, push the nose up, and use those center line guns:D   Thanks for the help

[BaldEagl]

Spin recovery is always the same regardless the type of spin or the aircraft;

Cut throttle.
Push the yoke forward.
Roll in the direction of the spin.
Straighten as you gain dive speed.
Recover from the dive.

You need to cut throttle for two reasons; to reduce speed/lift and to negate the gyroscopic effect of the prop which actually helps hold your nose level in a spin.

Push the yoke forward to attempt to gain a dive attitude, thus the airflow you've lost over your control surfaces which is what causes a spin in the first place.  Note that loss of airflow and a resulting spin can happen at any speed if angle of attack is severe enough to disrupt airflow over the wings (a condition known as mach tuck).

If you try to roll opposite the spin you actually exacerbate the spin by fighting against it.  Allow physics to help you out... roll into it which will help you get your nose down.

Don't worry about straightening right away if you have alt but be careful not to reach compression speed either.  

Once you can strighten out pull the yoke back and begin to throttle back up.

Hope that helps.

[SlapShot]

Sometimes dropping gear will help get the nose down ... along with all the other suggestions above.

[TequilaChaser]

hope , I don't foul this up, still on my 1st cup of joe this AM

In Twin Engine planes,  along with cutting throttle & dropping gear as mentioned above, one can also cut the engine opposite of the direction of the flat spin,  sometimes it works sometimes not 50/50, as the plane slows in the flat spin reduce throttle to ) and push forwad on stick to get nose Down

to get out of the flat part of a spin is and has been deemed nearly an impossible feat for most, looking back through history......this is true both in Real Life and in Aces High

as Baldeagle mentions above, once you get the plane in a nose below horizon atitude ( look for more than 20 to 30 degrees nose below horizon ) then one should keep as mentioned with : P A R E
*Power Off  / Push forward on stick to nose down
*Alierons neutral
*Rudder oppisite direction of spin rotation - until spin slows to a stop then let off all controls nuetral , if you over do the  "Rudder Opposite direction of spin, you end up spin other direction, so switch the rudder input if this happens )
* Elevator pull out of dive once speed has increased and airflow over wings begins to provide lift again for controlled flight..be gentle and  be carefule not to cross control

incipent tail spins, flat spins, invert flat spins all happen most times when people use 2 or more control axis at the same timeat the wrong time, most time at a high AOA, and as noted, can happen regardless of what speed, most times though, you will only experience accelerated stalls when going fast say above 250 IAS/TAS, and more often then not experience a full on spin at the lower extreme of the flight envelope, spins are a secondary reaction usually caused by pilot error when a stall occurs....

as with any stall/spin combo with practice , one can recovery controlled flight with practice.  the worst being the inverted ( upside down ) flat spin which happens very often in the Spit 1 and hurri 1 type planes because of the carbuerator - no fuel in negative G's  situation....

one of the very first things a player should learn is porper stall &/or spin recovery in this game....... long before getting into any type of advanced ACM tactics.......

hope this helps



Aces High Trainer Corps website - spins & spin recovery

just now noticed the stalls and different types of stalls is missing from the page which then leads into the spins part of the write-up, on the trainers site, we will get that fixed and updated....sorry for the inconvience

[TequilaChaser]

now that I am 1/2 way thru my cup of hot java,  I thought hey why not add some more to this........growing up in my ealry years of 23 thru 27, and just going  awnut(zzz) in Airwarrior, larning from the likes of Chick & Boozr & Dragn , BUG, etc.... AirWarrior in FR arena you could get into spins quite frequently, the 190's flyers would use a term called "spin fighting" if you got on their "6" they would purposely induce a spin to make you not get a guns solution and make you either pull off or over shoot......

the better pilots back in Air Warrior, and also here in Aces high, have the knack of controlling any spin they might get in to regardless if it is intentional or if it was by accident.

The more you fly, practice, fly  & practice , Train & practice, fight & train, Train & Fight ( always love the motto Ren uses in his username on the AH BBS )

you will develope a sense of knowing when to STOMP that rudder, when u sense a spin develope to learn to control that spin to your advantage......to me this is not a gaming the game technique, more so it is knwoing how to control your plane......stalls are real, spins are real......everyone playing this game has the chance to learn how to control a spin to their advantage,  to where they can begin a spin yet only allow it to spin from 1/8th to 1/4 to 1/2 or 1 full turn and instantly come out of that spin heading in the direction that is desired......

do not get me wrong. I am not saying spin on purpose, and induce spins on purpose....to me that is being a bit gamey......

what I am saying is use the most of the bad situation when entering a spin ( mainly a tail spin/vertical spin ) and learn how to snap it back to full control with use of Rudder Stomp,  it all is really an extended arm of the SA theory...
knowing what is happening around you at all times.......then use what you got to help benefit from the situation......

so to end this long extended rambling of mine, I would suggest flying every type of plane in the game, either in the TA/ Offline or DA and push the plane to the extreme edges of their flight envelopes & BEYOND....learn how and what causes at what moment for a stall to occurr then how to recover from a stall. Then learn what happens when a stall ocurrs and you mess up and induce a spin, learn how to finesely control that spin, to where you can exit that spin at will, regardless of how many revolutions u spin or if you only spin less than 1 complete revolution ( turn ).......

sorry for the long rambling, these are just a few suggestions and some things to think about, if you are wanting to get the maximum ability to learn control of your plane.......

hope this helps.....

[dedalos]

Don't know about real life but in AH it depends on what plane you are in.  However, one thing works with all.  Retract flaps, drop gear, turn engine off.  Most of the times turning the engine off and retracting the flaps is enough.

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by dedalos
Don't know about real life but in AH it depends on what plane you are in.  However, one thing works with all.  Retract flaps, drop gear, turn engine off.  Most of the times turning the engine off and retracting the flaps is enough.

yep, normally it does ded,
and if in an inverted ( upside down ) flat spin, remember to Pull nose down, instead of push nose down

[DoNKeY]

Thanks for all of the help and great answers guys, I really appreciate it.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
yep, normally it does ded,
and if in an inverted ( upside down ) flat spin, remember to Pull nose down, instead of push nose down

Unless you are in a spit V.  Just enjoy the float to the ground then lol

[toonces3]

I was discussing something along these lines with a squad mate recently.

I'm reading "The First Team and the Guadalcanal Campaign" right now, and one of the techniques the pilots (especially the Japanese it seems) used to defeat gun solutions was to deliberately put their plane into a spin.  

I was thinking about it, and this could be a very effective technique.  In a spin, your forward speed in slow or zero, yet your vertical speed is very high.  I could see how this would be a difficult situation for an enemy to get a solid gun solution on.

[ForrestS]

If your tailboom or elevator came off ur screwd. But if u were just in a flat spin you could of used your engines to get out of it.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
Spin recovery is always the same regardless the type of spin or the aircraft;

Cut throttle.
Push the yoke forward.
Roll in the direction of the spin.
Straighten as you gain dive speed.
Recover from the dive.

You need to cut throttle for two reasons; to reduce speed/lift and to negate the gyroscopic effect of the prop which actually helps hold your nose level in a spin.

Push the yoke forward to attempt to gain a dive attitude, thus the airflow you've lost over your control surfaces which is what causes a spin in the first place.  Note that loss of airflow and a resulting spin can happen at any speed if angle of attack is severe enough to disrupt airflow over the wings (a condition known as mach tuck).

If you try to roll opposite the spin you actually exacerbate the spin by fighting against it.  Allow physics to help you out... roll into it which will help you get your nose down.

Don't worry about straightening right away if you have alt but be careful not to reach compression speed either.  

Once you can strighten out pull the yoke back and begin to throttle back up.

Hope that helps.

That’s not entirely correct.  The entry to the spin will dictate the recovery.

Cut throttle.                   YES
Push the yoke forward.   Not if you entered an inverted flat spin  Controls to neutral
Roll in the direction of the spin.  Roll with what? The control surfaces are stalled
Straighten as you gain dive speed.
Recover from the dive.

Spin recovery is the following:
Reduce Power
Reduce Angel of attack
Controls to neutral

And wait and wait, given enough altitude you can recover, even from an inverted flat spin.

As the controls become more effective
Opposite ruder to the spin direction and roll to a wings level upright position.

For a total thrill, go to your local glider port.  Pay the instructor for an hours dual. If you are a rated pilot the first thing they will teach you is spin recovery.  Every glider built is approved for spins.  Because when soaring in a glider you are on the ragged edge of a spin and because of the gliders very long wing span, you are almost always cross controlled, so inverted spins are not uncommon.

In some aircraft, especially military aircraft, which were not designed to be dynamically stable, it may be necessary to change the CG by lowering the landing gear or changing flap settings to help recover.