ACLU likes SOME religions....

[Silat]

Originally posted by lazs2
silat... nice try.. tell you what..

Why don't you write them and say that you think helmet laws and seatbelt laws and gun laws are all unconstitutional and ask them why they aren't doing something about it?   I will await your response.

I have already done so.

Then.. you might as well ask them why they aren't stopping schools from allowing muslims to pray.

lazs

Here you go Laz:
The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the 13th, 14th and 15th) and the 19th Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.

Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.

Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.

Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.
We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled.

The ACLU was founded by Roger Baldwin, Crystal Eastman, Albert DeSilver and others in 1920. We are nonprofit and nonpartisan and have grown from a roomful of civil liberties activists to an organization of more than 500,000 members and supporters. We handle nearly 6,000 court cases annually from our offices in almost every state.

The ACLU has maintained the position that civil liberties must be respected, even in times of national emergency. The ACLU is supported by annual dues and contributions from its members, plus grants from private foundations and individuals. We do not receive any government funding.  Learn more about joining the ACLU.

[lazs2]

silat..  I expected more from you.

you left out some rights..  just like your heroes.   They admit that seatbelt laws and helmet laws are unconstitutional and they wiggle and choke when you ask em about the second.

They have a socialist agenda.  there is no doubt.

go ahead... ask em... get back to me.

Do you need a link to their site so that you can email em?

lazs

[Silat]

Originally posted by lazs2
silat..  I expected more from you.

you left out some rights..  just like your heroes.   They admit that seatbelt laws and helmet laws are unconstitutional and they wiggle and choke when you ask em about the second.

They have a socialist agenda.  there is no doubt.

go ahead... ask em... get back to me.

Do you need a link to their site so that you can email em?

lazs

Dont need a link as I posted above from their site. It tells you what they are about. It backs me up. Not you.

Who are my heroes?
And please post the ACLU stance on helmet laws as Im not familier with it.

They do not have a socialist agenda. That is rightwing crap. They only protect the constitution and the bill of rights in their cases. That is fact.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Silat
Once again Ill explain this to you. You wanted Jesus in the public square and were warned where it would end up. But you were/are the majority so you turned a blind eye to those of us who were fighting religion being in the public square. You called us whiners. Now who is whining?
Now you have other religions wanting to be in the same public square.
You got your wish.
Now maybe you see why no religion should be in the public square?

1. You have no idea what I wanted with respect to Jesus in the public square. None. You don't have any clue whatsover as to my position on that. You have proven this point by what you posted.

2. What I was pointing out was the dead-nuts-on statement by bj229r that "none of the brave anti Jesus crusaders has dared thus far to raise a peep about the religion of peace, and its attempts to bend our culture to suit it".

He's absolutely correct. There's ample evidence of successful attempts to control any and all religious aspects of Christmas...even to the point of schools not being able to use the word during the season. However, the same people that are ever so careful not to offend anyone by saying "Merry Christmas" in a school are strangely, almost incredibly silent when it comes to Muslim calls to prayer being broadcast over the neighborhood or Muslim foot baths being installed in airports for the taxi drivers. Dead silence.

I can only imagine the outcry should a Prie Dieu be installed in a taxi driver waiting areas so some Christian could say a few prayers.

So, focus on this: There should be no special government treatment for Islam that is any different from what the Jewish or Christians faiths receive here. clearly there is.

And here's the point: THERE IS NO PROTEST ABOUT THAT. That fact is ignored by the same people that are horrified by a teacher saying "Merry Christmas" to her class.

Hypocrisy. Period.

[Seagoon]

Hello Silat,

Originally posted by Silat
Yes I did see that. You see the Christians wanted religion in there. Now they have it. But , whoops its the wrong religion:)
Told you so is all Im going to keep saying....................

There have been Christian prayers at the opening of Congress since the very first meeting on September 7, 1774 Here is a painting of the event:


John Adams wrote of the event:

Washington was kneeling there, and Henry, Randolph, Rutledge, Lee, and Jay, and by their side there stood bowed in reverence, the Puritan Patriots of New England, who at that moment had reason to believe that an armed soldiery was wasting their humble households. It was believed that Boston had been bombarded and destroyed.

They prayed fervently "for America, for Congress, for the Province of Massachusetts Bay, and especially for the town of Boston", and who can realize the emotions with which they turned imploringly to Heaven for Divine interposition and aid.

"It was enough", says Mr. Adams to melt a heart of stone. I saw the tears gush into the eyes of the old, grave Pacific Quakers of Philadelphia.

Here is the text of the prayer of which Adams wrote he never heard better in all his life, no doubt it will make your hair stand on end and your teeth gnash. If only the ACLU had been there to put an end to it at the beginning you'd all still be loyal subjects of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II:

The First Prayer in Congress

Be Thou present; O God of Wisdom, and direct the councils of this Honorable Assembly: enable them to settle all things on the best and surest foundations: that the scene of blood may be speedily closed: that Order, Harmony and Peace may be effectually restored, and Truth, and Justice, Religion, and Piety prevail and flourish among the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and the vigor of their minds, shower down on them, and the millions they here represent, such temporal Blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world, and crown them with everlasting Glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ Thy Son and Our Savior. Amen

[Seagoon]

Hi Silat,

Originally posted by Silat
Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.
We work also to extend rights to segments of our population that have traditionally been denied their rights, including Native Americans and other people of color; lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgendered people; women; mental-health patients; prisoners; people with disabilities; and the poor.

If the rights of society's most vulnerable members are denied, everybody's rights are imperiled.

Oh no there are some caveats to that of course, that's unless the most vulnerable happen to be in utero in which case the ACLU denies they have even the most fundamental right to live, oh and of course if they happen to be children being exploited by say child pornographers in which case they are strongly in favor. As I quoted in another pro-ACLU thread:

To quote "Xbiz" the industry source for the X-rated movie business:

ACLU lawyers filed an amicus brief in the 1982 Supreme Court child pornography case, New York v. Ferber. The case sought to legalize the sale and distribution — but not the production — of child pornography. The Court unanimously decided that child pornography was not worthy of protection.

Predictably, the ACLU's reasoning in Ferber was that the distribution of child porn was constitutionally protected free speech. The ACLU's official position on child porn is:

The ACLU believes that the First Amendment protects the dissemination of all forms of communication. The ACLU opposes on First Amendment grounds laws that restrict the production and distribution of any printed and visual materials even when some of the producers of those materials are punishable under criminal law

They've said that they are opposed to the production of the Child Porn (note: never the distribution) ONLY if such production is quote - "highly likely to cause: a) substantial physical harm or, b) substantial and continuing emotional or psychological harm." of course if it can't be definitively proven to highly likely to cause such harm then of course that's all right then.

Additionally, they also oppose all attempts to require producers of hard core porn to keep records of the ages of their performers as an invasion of the right to privacy and blatant censorship. To quote Barry Lynn: "If there is no federal record-keeping requirement for the people portrayed in Road and Track or 'Star Wars,’" he said, "there can be no such requirement for Hustler or ‘Debbie Does Dallas.’” and in the official ACLU position paper: "Distributors, exhibitors and retailers should not be obliged to risk punishment by misjudging the age of a minor. Such persons should not be required to keep records of evidence submitted by minors; and should be entitled to rely reasonably on a minor's statement of age." ("Hey, she said she was 18 when we picked her up at the playground.")

They also absolutely oppose all attempts to restrict the dissemination of pornography to children - and I quote:

"Laws which punish the distribution or exposure of such material to minors violate the First Amendment, and inevitably restrict the right to publish and distribute such materials to adults."

Silat, I'd agree with you that the ACLU doesn't have a criteria of only supporting Socialist causes, as far as I can tell their primary criteria (with a few exceptions now and then) is that the cause being supported has to be thoroughly evil.

- SEAGOON

[midnight Target]

Usually the "non-evil" causes don't need an advocate.

[Toad]

True; it's the poor child pornographers that need protecting.

[Laurie]

Originally posted by bj229r
OK, CAN't have Ten Commandments on the wall in a courtroom
CAN'T have a cross on a hill on public land (though it is a memorial to dead soldiers)
CAN'T allow Boy Scouts of America to use public land
CAN't allow kids to read Bible SILENTLY to themselves during break
CAN'T allow kids to have a 'Bible' club after hours on school property
(Could go on for some time here, but you get the idea..I'm waiting for Rosie O'Donnell to scream out "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!"....but these types usually have naught to say in this area)

But apparently the ACLU DOESN'T have any sort of problem with public schools accommodating Muslims by  having prayer breaks, and removing any vestige of pork from school grounds???


 

link

We have, sadly, the same problem in Britain , although now it has spiralled out of control. Head scarfs are allowed in school but not a simple crucifix round the neck under a shirt.

[Laurie]

Originally posted by bj229r
That's fine (I can't lay claim to being a 'religious type'---I have spent more time in the presence of men-of-the-cloth  during weddings and funerals than anything else in my life...That being said, I don't think the Ten Commandments threatens my freedom) Just be CONSISTENT--We have a mosque in Detroit suburbs that blares out calls to prayer...4? times a day--can be heard for a good mile, we are putting foot baths in airports for Muslim cab drivers....the list goes on. But none of the brave anti Jesus crusaders has dared thus far to raise a peep about the religion of peace, and its attempts to bend our culture to suit it. I'd LOVE to see a Robin Williams skit going off on a imam and his Quran...I somehow doubt that will happen...lets talk about pedophile priests again, that's groundbreaking, Robin

i really sympathise for you bj229r, at least in your country you seem have a little support, yet  i and a few like minded Britains seem to be isolated and stand alone over here, barricaded in from bombardments of accusations of racism and prejudice.

Sadly the idea of true patriotism, that does not include avidly supporting england in the world cup, Is an extinct and mighty beast sitting on a dusty shelf in the national archive's back closet.

[bj229r]

Originally posted by Laurie
i really sympathise for you bj229r, at least in your country you seem have a little support, yet  i and a few like minded Britains seem to be isolated and stand alone over here, barricaded in from bombardments of accusations of racism and prejudice.

Sadly the idea of true patriotism, that does not include avidly supporting england in the world cup, Is an extinct and mighty beast sitting on a dusty shelf in the national archive's back closet.

Brits are just too danged NICe to people! These folks come to Britain because radical Islam has wrecked their countries, yet they try to recreate the VERY same pile of in Britain, and the vast majority of society seems to be helping them unroll their prayer rug each day, oblivious to the eventual fact that Islam will be the rule in Britain, rather than the exception. (We have a similar problem here, but they only bring crappy music and food that elicits gas:D )

[Silat]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Silat,



Oh no there are some caveats to that of course, that's unless the most vulnerable happen to be in utero in which case the ACLU denies they have even the most fundamental right to live, oh and of course if they happen to be children being exploited by say child pornographers in which case they are strongly in favor. As I quoted in another pro-ACLU thread:



Silat, I'd agree with you that the ACLU doesn't have a criteria of only supporting Socialist causes, as far as I can tell their primary criteria (with a few exceptions now and then) is that the cause being supported has to be thoroughly evil.

- SEAGOON

This wasnt and isnt a PRO ACLU thread. My responses were to the disinformation that some righties are posting. The ACLU was never a socialist organization. Typical republicanfanatic talking points.

Im not going to argue your RELIGIOUS beliefs. Been there, done that:)Religious beliefs are yours to use as you see fit, Not to force on the rest of us. You dont want an abortion SEAGOON. Then dont get one.
Otherwise at this moment in time the rights of the woman to control her body and whatever is in it is protected by the laws of this land. I for one dont want that to change. Its a slippery slope that you of organized religion dont see until it affects you. As evidenced in this thread.
As soon as Muslims want their religion in the public square the Christians start whining. You cant have it both ways. You want religion outed? Then get ready bud. You wont like what you get.
No religion in the public square and we dont have a problem. Practice your religion privately and in your hearts where it belongs.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Toad
1. You have no idea what I wanted with respect to Jesus in the public square. None. You don't have any clue whatsover as to my position on that. You have proven this point by what you posted.

2. What I was pointing out was the dead-nuts-on statement by bj229r that "none of the brave anti Jesus crusaders has dared thus far to raise a peep about the religion of peace, and its attempts to bend our culture to suit it".

He's absolutely correct. There's ample evidence of successful attempts to control any and all religious aspects of Christmas...even to the point of schools not being able to use the word during the season. However, the same people that are ever so careful not to offend anyone by saying "Merry Christmas" in a school are strangely, almost incredibly silent when it comes to Muslim calls to prayer being broadcast over the neighborhood or Muslim foot baths being installed in airports for the taxi drivers. Dead silence.

I can only imagine the outcry should a Prie Dieu be installed in a taxi driver waiting areas so some Christian could say a few prayers.

So, focus on this: There should be no special government treatment for Islam that is any different from what the Jewish or Christians faiths receive here. clearly there is.

And here's the point: THERE IS NO PROTEST ABOUT THAT. That fact is ignored by the same people that are horrified by a teacher saying "Merry Christmas" to her class.

Hypocrisy. Period.

No religion in the public square. What part of that dont you understand?

[john9001]

Originally posted by Silat
No religion in the public square. What part of that dont you understand?

no religion, but what about our tradition, our culture, Christmas is and has been part of the tradition and culture of america.

people like you tell us we have to respect the culture of other countries, but you will not even respect your own culture.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Silat
No religion in the public square. What part of that dont you understand?

No special consideration for Islam without lawsuits.

What part of that don't you understand?

Please link me to the lawsuits against Islamic religion in the public square that have been filed by the same people that filed lawsuits against Jewish/Christian religion in the public square.

There aren't any. You know it. I know it.

Hypocrisy.