Are CV's Too Strong

[Patches1]

CV's are overly strong from an Air standpoint.

[Patches1]

I regularly sink them in my Corsair with 3K of Ords.

Why is a WWII CV armored better from the air than a CA?

[tedrbr]

Are CV's Too Strong

You have to be kidding.  
CV's are weak in the game by the way the players operate them.  No CAP over the CV during operations, no one minding the helm during operations to maneuver if need be.  They run the task force right up onto bases with functional ordnance and shore batteries.  

I'm taking a break from the arenas, but I've regularly dropped an undamaged CV in one pass --- and I use Mitsubishi Ki-67's"Hiryu",  aka "Flying Dragon", aka "Peggy" with  a load out of 8 X 100kg bombs , in two salvos of 4, with delay of 0.05 seconds.  That's 800 kg (1,796 lbs) per plane, 2,400 kg (5,390 lbs) per flight.  I bomb at full speed, coming in at around 300 mph, at between 5K and 7K altitude, and know how much to lead the CV from that height.  I take a lot of damage from flack and AAA, but it is very hard for the CV to out maneuver my drop from that height -- a good helmsman may prevent the sinking, but the CV will still take a lot of damage from those two close salvos.
 
I use the Ki's to get over the CV in a short amount of time, 300 mph when level at those alts -- and they have better defensive guns that the Arado's (I used to use flights of Arados to sink CV's, but I have much more fun with the Ki-67's).

So long as I don't run into a TG with a well manned 5 inch gun, or two, fired accurately, or more than one high CAP with cannons in position to intercept, I tend to get in over the target and sink it, or at least very heavily damage the CV, in one pass.

[kilz]

Originally posted by tedrbr
Are CV's Too Strong

You have to be kidding.  
CV's are weak in the game by the way the players operate them.  No CAP over the CV during operations, no one minding the helm during operations to maneuver if need be.  They run the task force right up onto bases with functional ordnance and shore batteries.  

I'm taking a break from the arenas, but I've regularly dropped an undamaged CV in one pass --- and I use Mitsubishi Ki-67's"Hiryu",  aka "Flying Dragon", aka "Peggy" with  a load out of 8 X 100kg bombs , in two salvos of 4, with delay of 0.05 seconds.  That's 800 kg (1,796 lbs) per plane, 2,400 kg (5,390 lbs) per flight.  I bomb at full speed, coming in at around 300 mph, at between 5K and 7K altitude, and know how much to lead the CV from that height.  I take a lot of damage from flack and AAA, but it is very hard for the CV to out maneuver my drop from that height -- a good helmsman may prevent the sinking, but the CV will still take a lot of damage from those two close salvos.
 
I use the Ki's to get over the CV in a short amount of time, 300 mph when level at those alts -- and they have better defensive guns that the Arado's (I used to use flights of Arados to sink CV's, but I have much more fun with the Ki-67's).

So long as I don't run into a TG with a well manned 5 inch gun, or two, fired accurately, or more than one high CAP with cannons in position to intercept, I tend to get in over the target and sink it, or at least very heavily damage the CV, in one pass.

not HTCs fault that no one flys high cap over cv. so i would disagree with saying its not hard enough. thats why there is auto ack

[Masherbrum]

I agree with Steve and CV based furballs.

[kilz]

Originally posted by crockett
I rarely ever have issues sinking a CV if I hit it. I normally never use Lancaster's and normally never use all the bombs. Hell I even sunk a CV using a 110 with heavy gun package and rockets. It was already damaged, but I'm not sure how bad.

Personally I think the fact it's so easy to kill a CV by level bombing is a little lame. I can't think of any time in WW2 that a CV or ship was killed by level bombers.

what do you think bombers did back then dive bombed. nope thats just in Aces High. cvs where killed by planes more then anything but bombers killed cvs flying level.

[Masherbrum]

But, dive bombing in Buffs is weak.    After a certain speed, they should be unrecoverable.   And no "I'm gonna let my bombs drop anyways if I'm going in."  

No ENY ship in a TF was sunk in WWII, via level bombing.    I'm not talking "parked ships offshore" either.

[Toad]

Originally posted by SteveBailey
cv to base fights rock. IMHO cv's are not strong enough.

Word.

[Xasthur]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
But, dive bombing in Buffs is weak.    After a certain speed, they should be unrecoverable.   And no "I'm gonna let my bombs drop anyways if I'm going in."  

The bomb bay doors should automatically close above a certain speed. That way when we gamey knobs on Lancstuka runs, they dive in, bomb bay doors 'malfunction', they auger/receive new bungholes from the ack and no bombs are released.

Won't stop the suicide on the deck and pull up at the last second tards, but it will perhaps stop some lancstuka runs

[Laurie]

Originally posted by Connery
imo CV's aren't tough enough.

edit: CV Groups I suppose I meant to say rather than CV's

i think there is lot of potential in the AH task group to develop a really enjoyable new dimension to the game

[ozrocker]

Salvo 4 delay 0.05 in B26's. works everytime:)
                                                Oz

[kilz]

one watch a movie called the fighting lady that will prove that bombers bombed cvs. i will try to find the place that i read where bombers killed a cv but for now i am out of time will keep looking at another time

[whels]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114686
no FLEET carrier was sunk by level bombers, and thats what we
have in AH  a Fleet CV.

Fleet carriers sunk in World War 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fleet carriers in service in WW2:

United States Navy - 21 total
2 Lexington class
1 Ranger class
3 Yorktown class
1 Wasp class
14 Essex class

Royal Navy - 10 total
1 Furious class
2 Corageous class
1 Ark Royal class
3 Illustrious class
1 Indomitable class
2 Implacable class

Imperial Japanese Navy - 13 total
1 Akagi class
1 Kaga class
1 Soryu class
1 Hiryu class
2 Shokaku class
2 Junyo class
1 Taiho class
3 Unryu class
1 Shinano class

Fleet carriers sunk in WW2:

Sunk by air attack, in port:
INS Amagi, bombed in Kure by US aircraft, grounded and then capsized, June 28, 1945.

Sunk by air attack, in open water:
USS Lexington, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes in Battle of the Coral Sea May 8 1942. Burned out of control and scuttled several hours later.

USS Hornet, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes, then sunk by Japanese as they tried to salvage her after the Battle of Santa Cruz October 26, 1942.

INS Akagi, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Kaga, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Soryu, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Hiryu, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Zuikaku, sunky by US aircraft during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

INS Hiyo, sunk by USN torpedo bombers during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, June 20, 1944.

Sunk in surface combat:
HMS Glorious, sunk by German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau off of Norway June 8, 1940.

Sunk by submarine:
USS Yorktown, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes and then sunk by Japanese submarine I-168 during Battle of Midway June 7, 1942.

USS Wasp, sunk by Japanese submarine I-19 off of Guadalcanal September 15, 1942.

HMS Corageous, sunk by German submarine U-20, September 17, 1939.

HMS Ark Royal, sunk by German submarine U-81 off of Gibraltar, November 14, 1941.

INS Shokaku, sunk by submarine USS Cavalla during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, June 19, 1944.

INS Taiho, sunk by submarine USS Albacore during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, June 20, 1944.

INS Unryu, sunk by submarine USS Redfish off of Shanghai, December 19, 1944.

INS Shinano, sunk by submarine USS Archerfish off of Kure November 29, 1944.

Total number of fleet carriers serving: 44

Sunk by air attack, in port: 1
Sunk by air attack, in open water: 8
Sunk in surface combat: 1
Sunk by submarine: 8
Total sunk: 18

Losses, by country:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 11
United States Navy: 4
Royal Navy: 3

As % of total force:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 11/13, 85%
Royal Navy: 3/10, 30%
United States Navy: 4/21, 19%
Total: 18/44, 41%

Notes:
Although many Essex class carriers suffered severe Kamikaze damage, including the USS Franklin which lost over 700 crew to one strike, none of them were sunk.
Only one carrier was sunk in port the entire war.
Once again, as with the battleships, the Japanese suffered the worst losses and the US suffered percentagewise, substantially less losses than the Royal Navy.

Light Fleet Carriers:
United States Navy - 9 total
9 Independence class

Royal Navy - 6 total
1 Unicorn class
5 Colossus class

Imperial Japanese Navy - 7 total
1 Hosho class
1 Ryujo class
2 Chitose class
2 Zuiho class
1 Ryuho class

Light Fleet carriers sunk in WW2:

Sunk by air attack, in open water:
USS Princeton, bombed by Japanese aircraft during Battle of Leyte Gulf October 24, 1944 and scuttled as fires burned out of control.

INS Ryujo, sunk by USN dive bombers off of Guadalcanal, August 24, 1942.

INS Chitose, sunk by US aircraft during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

INS Shoho, sunk by US aircraft during Battle of the Coral Sea, May 7, 1942.

Sunk by combination of surface and air attack:
INS Chitose, sunk by US aircraft, destroyer torpedoes and cruiser fire during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

INS Chiyoda, sunk by US aircraft, destroyer torpedoes and cruiser fire during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

Total number of light fleet carriers serving: 22

Sunk by air attack, in open water: 4
Sunk by combination of surface and air attack: 2
Total sunk: 6

Losses, by country:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 5
United States Navy: 1
Royal Navy: 0

As % of total force:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 5/7, 71%
United States Navy: 1/9, 11%
Total: 6/22, 27%

Notes:
Once again, many light fleet carriers were hit and severely damaged by kamikazes but none were sunk.

Both fleet and light fleet carriers:

Total serving: 66
Sunk by air attack, in port: 1
Sunk by air attack, in open water: 12
Sunk by combination of surface and air attack: 2
Sunk in surface combat: 1
Sunk by submarine: 8
Total sunk: 24

Losses, by country:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 16
United States Navy: 5
Royal Navy: 3

As % of total force:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 11/20, 55%
Royal Navy: 3/16, 19%
United States Navy: 4/30, 13%
Total: 24/66, 36%


Escort Carriers:
(i'm not going to list them all and all whom they were loaned too, just here's the losses)

USS St. Lo, hit by a kamikaze and sunk on October 25, 1944 during Battle of Leyte Gulf.
USS Bismarck Sea, hit by 2 kamikazes and sunk February 12, 1945 off of Iwo Jima.
USS Liscombe Bay, sunk by Japanese submarine I-175 off the Gilbert Islands November 24, 1943.
USS Gambier Bay, sunk by Japanese warships during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.
USS Block Island, sunk by German submarine U-549 off of the Canary Islands May 29, 1944.
HMS Avenger, sunk by German submarine U-155 off of Gibraltar November 15, 1942.
HMS Audacity, sunk by German submarine U-751 off of Portugal December 21, 1941.
HMS Hermes, sunk by Japanese aircraft off of Ceylon April 9, 1942.
INS Taoyo, sunk by submarine USS Rasher off the Philippines August 18, 1944.
INS Unyo, sunk by submarine USS Barb off Hong Kong, September 15, 1944.
INS Chuyo, sunk by submarine USS Sailfish off of Japan, December 4, 1943.
INS Kaiyo, sunk by US aircraft July 24, 1945.
INS Shinyo, sunk by submarine USS Spadefish in the Yellow Sea, November 17, 1944.
INS Akitsu Maru, sunk by submarine USS Queenfish November 15, 1944.
INS Nigitsu Maru, sunk by submarine USS Hake January 12, 1944.

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[TalonX]

There will be battle ship flotillas defending shore bases, and submarines.  This will add a fantastic new dimension.

I read elsewhere this would be in about two weeks.

[kilz]

Originally posted by whels
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114686
no FLEET carrier was sunk by level bombers, and thats what we
have in AH  a Fleet CV.

Fleet carriers sunk in World War 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fleet carriers in service in WW2:

United States Navy - 21 total
2 Lexington class
1 Ranger class
3 Yorktown class
1 Wasp class
14 Essex class

Royal Navy - 10 total
1 Furious class
2 Corageous class
1 Ark Royal class
3 Illustrious class
1 Indomitable class
2 Implacable class

Imperial Japanese Navy - 13 total
1 Akagi class
1 Kaga class
1 Soryu class
1 Hiryu class
2 Shokaku class
2 Junyo class
1 Taiho class
3 Unryu class
1 Shinano class

Fleet carriers sunk in WW2:

Sunk by air attack, in port:
INS Amagi, bombed in Kure by US aircraft, grounded and then capsized, June 28, 1945.

Sunk by air attack, in open water:
USS Lexington, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes in Battle of the Coral Sea May 8 1942. Burned out of control and scuttled several hours later.

USS Hornet, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes, then sunk by Japanese as they tried to salvage her after the Battle of Santa Cruz October 26, 1942.

INS Akagi, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Kaga, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Soryu, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Hiryu, badly damaged by US dive bombers at Midway and then scuttled, June 4, 1942.

INS Zuikaku, sunky by US aircraft during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

INS Hiyo, sunk by USN torpedo bombers during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, June 20, 1944.

Sunk in surface combat:
HMS Glorious, sunk by German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau off of Norway June 8, 1940.

Sunk by submarine:
USS Yorktown, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes and then sunk by Japanese submarine I-168 during Battle of Midway June 7, 1942.

USS Wasp, sunk by Japanese submarine I-19 off of Guadalcanal September 15, 1942.

HMS Corageous, sunk by German submarine U-20, September 17, 1939.

HMS Ark Royal, sunk by German submarine U-81 off of Gibraltar, November 14, 1941.

INS Shokaku, sunk by submarine USS Cavalla during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, June 19, 1944.

INS Taiho, sunk by submarine USS Albacore during the Battle of the Philippine Sea, June 20, 1944.

INS Unryu, sunk by submarine USS Redfish off of Shanghai, December 19, 1944.

INS Shinano, sunk by submarine USS Archerfish off of Kure November 29, 1944.

Total number of fleet carriers serving: 44

Sunk by air attack, in port: 1
Sunk by air attack, in open water: 8
Sunk in surface combat: 1
Sunk by submarine: 8
Total sunk: 18

Losses, by country:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 11
United States Navy: 4
Royal Navy: 3

As % of total force:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 11/13, 85%
Royal Navy: 3/10, 30%
United States Navy: 4/21, 19%
Total: 18/44, 41%

Notes:
Although many Essex class carriers suffered severe Kamikaze damage, including the USS Franklin which lost over 700 crew to one strike, none of them were sunk.
Only one carrier was sunk in port the entire war.
Once again, as with the battleships, the Japanese suffered the worst losses and the US suffered percentagewise, substantially less losses than the Royal Navy.

Light Fleet Carriers:
United States Navy - 9 total
9 Independence class

Royal Navy - 6 total
1 Unicorn class
5 Colossus class

Imperial Japanese Navy - 7 total
1 Hosho class
1 Ryujo class
2 Chitose class
2 Zuiho class
1 Ryuho class

Light Fleet carriers sunk in WW2:

Sunk by air attack, in open water:
USS Princeton, bombed by Japanese aircraft during Battle of Leyte Gulf October 24, 1944 and scuttled as fires burned out of control.

INS Ryujo, sunk by USN dive bombers off of Guadalcanal, August 24, 1942.

INS Chitose, sunk by US aircraft during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

INS Shoho, sunk by US aircraft during Battle of the Coral Sea, May 7, 1942.

Sunk by combination of surface and air attack:
INS Chitose, sunk by US aircraft, destroyer torpedoes and cruiser fire during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

INS Chiyoda, sunk by US aircraft, destroyer torpedoes and cruiser fire during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.

Total number of light fleet carriers serving: 22

Sunk by air attack, in open water: 4
Sunk by combination of surface and air attack: 2
Total sunk: 6

Losses, by country:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 5
United States Navy: 1
Royal Navy: 0

As % of total force:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 5/7, 71%
United States Navy: 1/9, 11%
Total: 6/22, 27%

Notes:
Once again, many light fleet carriers were hit and severely damaged by kamikazes but none were sunk.

Both fleet and light fleet carriers:

Total serving: 66
Sunk by air attack, in port: 1
Sunk by air attack, in open water: 12
Sunk by combination of surface and air attack: 2
Sunk in surface combat: 1
Sunk by submarine: 8
Total sunk: 24

Losses, by country:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 16
United States Navy: 5
Royal Navy: 3

As % of total force:
Imperial Japanese Navy: 11/20, 55%
Royal Navy: 3/16, 19%
United States Navy: 4/30, 13%
Total: 24/66, 36%


Escort Carriers:
(i'm not going to list them all and all whom they were loaned too, just here's the losses)

USS St. Lo, hit by a kamikaze and sunk on October 25, 1944 during Battle of Leyte Gulf.
USS Bismarck Sea, hit by 2 kamikazes and sunk February 12, 1945 off of Iwo Jima.
USS Liscombe Bay, sunk by Japanese submarine I-175 off the Gilbert Islands November 24, 1943.
USS Gambier Bay, sunk by Japanese warships during Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 25, 1944.
USS Block Island, sunk by German submarine U-549 off of the Canary Islands May 29, 1944.
HMS Avenger, sunk by German submarine U-155 off of Gibraltar November 15, 1942.
HMS Audacity, sunk by German submarine U-751 off of Portugal December 21, 1941.
HMS Hermes, sunk by Japanese aircraft off of Ceylon April 9, 1942.
INS Taoyo, sunk by submarine USS Rasher off the Philippines August 18, 1944.
INS Unyo, sunk by submarine USS Barb off Hong Kong, September 15, 1944.
INS Chuyo, sunk by submarine USS Sailfish off of Japan, December 4, 1943.
INS Kaiyo, sunk by US aircraft July 24, 1945.
INS Shinyo, sunk by submarine USS Spadefish in the Yellow Sea, November 17, 1944.
INS Akitsu Maru, sunk by submarine USS Queenfish November 15, 1944.
INS Nigitsu Maru, sunk by submarine USS Hake January 12, 1944.

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look up in your post.  USS Lexington, badly damaged by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes. does it say anywhere in that website that it was a torpedo that got the final blow or a bomber. yes i understand it burnt to hell and finaly burned long enough to die. but this happened at the hands of Japanese bombers and torpedo planes. so proving my statement that bombers did bomb cvs. now i will agree that this does not state that the boat died to bombers or torpedo planes both had a roll in this.