Bf 109K-4 of 10./JG 300 "White 5"

[Fencer51]

Had this almost done for quite some time, just haven't had time to post it for review before finishing it.

Pic 1


Pic 2


Pic 3

[Krusty]

Ignoring the replacement cowling, why is it all 1 color? Even from the factor it should have at least 2-3 colors on it.

Very strange.

[killnu]

yummy!!:aok

[Bosco123]

whats with the white on the wings I thought that the wings were the 2 color green that looks like a mistake

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Krusty
Ignoring the replacement cowling, why is it all 1 color? Even from the factor it should have at least 2-3 colors on it.

Very strange.

Which is why I did it.  What?  You have two different rules?  You are always saying that Allied planes all look alike, now you complain that I do a unique LW plane????

 And it is NOT a replacement cowling.  This is JG300 they had unique ideas.

[Krusty]

I wasn't ridiculing, Fencer, I was more looking for background story, is all.

[Citabria]

well I bought every book on amazon.com concerning LW colors and markings and paint schemes including a book with genuine color chips (bought both volumes dont ask how much I spent its insane)

what is evident to me after reading a lot about this is that the german paint industry kept its paints standardised very well right up to the end.
therefore because the paint being produced by the german paint industry was standardised to the RLM specs it was quite uniform.

The german aircraft were always painted with this RLM standard paint.

on your airplane...

i like the green
your green looks good in hue and color and it is somewhere in the range to the color card I have for either rlm 82 oliv-grun or RLM 83 dunkel-grun. couldnt say its close enough to either to pin it to one or the other but its close enough to call it a faded version of one or the other.

however...

do you have pictures of this plane or is this an artist rendering only?

I have a pic of a similar plane from jg300 with this same scheme but the book shows the actual photos the profiles are based off of which is nice.
they explain the jg300 bird (yellow 7) was a rlm 74/75/76 overpainted with rlm 81 or 83 or a combination of the two.

so likely that cowling would be a standard  74/75/76 cowling which wouldnt look as odd but still would look strange enough

if it is an opverpaint all the little markings and such would as they have in this pic I have have boxes around them where the old color underneath is visible.

if you deconstruct how these planes ended up in the colors they did it makes a bit more sense when you take into account that the RLM was still fully functioning in its role as a regulator of colors and schemes and markings right up to the end of the war.

the application and color combinations is gernerally to the letter on most aircraft. exceptions like the experimental schemes on jg54 are an exception.

but even late war when the schemes switched from rlm 74/75/76 to 81/82/76 and 82/83/76 and sometimes combinations of these. 75/82/76 or 75/83/76 etc. it was still standard colors delivered by the paint industry mixed to rlm standards.

and all those color swatches on simmers paint shop.com are so far off its not worth using them.

side spray camo was a combination of any of these colors and sometimes rlm 02 was thinly sprayed over the sides to tone down the rlm 76.

factory painted nonmatching pieces were not uncommon but these too were painted to one of the variety of standard color schemes once again using standard paints.

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Krusty
I wasn't ridiculing, Fencer, I was more looking for background story, is all.

Bf 109G-10 (W.Nr 491 241) 'White 5' of 10./JG 300, flown by Uffz. Ferdinand Dyk. Juterborg-Damm, December 1944.  With 10./JG 300 Ferdinand Dyk flew only three sorties.  On 31st December 1944 near Jaltenweide he was shot down by P-51s.  This aircraft is overall RLM 71, with excpetion of the upper engine cowling finished in RLM 76 and mottled with RLM 75.  Undersides are RLM 76.

[Citabria]

are there pics of this plane or is it artists profile only?

[Fencer51]

Sorry was fixated on Krusty there, he's picking scabs again.

Anyway, no I don't have a picture, at least I don't think I do.  The profile comes from the excellent Janowicz book Volume 3.  They have a full page dedicated to the profile.  (3 view) There are several excellent profiles and gads of pictures in the book.

It is half polish text though.  I got it from squadron online, I would recommend it to you.

[Citabria]

aye what i am getting at is the pic I am looking at of jg 300 yellow 7 might be what this profile is based off of but the scheme changed to reflect the pilot while using the yellow 7 as reference.

its academic and not really related to the skin. the skin is fine the way it is and will get added without toruble likely. we have plenty of unhistoric skins so its accuracy is not a point of debate in terms of being acceptable.

but reading between the lines of how this could come about, I don't buy it. there is a logic behind even the most outrageous actual paint schemes and this one there isnt. if it was a replacement cowl it would be a standard cowl of late war green/brown or grey green or mid war grey on grey. the fine period dimpling is very uncharacteristic of every pic of a german fighter I have seen.

I am more interested in an attempt to arive at the same interpretation of a black and white pic as the profile artist did.

I just don't see the nose as being that way even if it was a replacement.

and two replacement noses on two aircraft in the same squadron that look about the same? the odds of this being a different aircraft diminish rapidly.

also the 70/71 early war colors are in fact quite similar to the real 82/83 colors though not identical. it is unlikely that fighters would be using the old colors. it was in one instance used as directed by RLM on a certain bomber i think a heinkel i cant remember which one to use up a stock of 70 or 71 but this is a rarity.

[Fencer51]

Cit,

I don't have the JG300 book that just came out, but I think that further research will show anyone interested that JG300 was somewhat unique in their color schemes.  Any interesting photos, or decals, or profiles that I see are usually JG300 or JG301.

There are several exceptions to this rule, including a really werid looking pokka dot G model and variations on this which did not belong to this unit.

I have seen photos of pilots painting their cowlings to suit them, maybe this was such a paint job.

Also don't forget that while the RLM colors were the same, the factories did do custom paint for the Units at one point.  Whether this continued up to the end of the war I am not qualified to comment on.

The LW color schemes were locked down.  In fact I be more suspect of one that looked exactly like the other.

[Krusty]

Well he says it wasn't a replacement, it was painted that way on purpose. Why, I'm not sure.


Fencer, I pick nits on skins to help. I've pointed out obvious things to others, and others have pointed out obvious things to me.

It's just such a radical skin (so deviant from the norm at the time) that it bears more scrutiny than the average. Don't take it as me picking on you in particular.


Citabria, I personally think getting the skin accurate is important. I think that skins on "remodeled" planes should be accurate, and while some have slipped through it's my opinion they should be pulled (black 38 skin from ETO with PTO kill markings comes to mind). IMO they should be as close as the skin itself allows, and the information at had provides.

[Guppy35]

Just got my copy of the 2nd volume of the JG 300 history.  It shows a number of 190s with that same change to the cowling colors.

It also has a photo and profile of a 109K and the comment was that many JG300 109s had that same cowling towards the end of the war.  it doesn't explain why.  The 109 is Green 7 with blue and white tail bands

The rest of the aircraft is two tone green/brown or whatever that color is.  I confess to NOT being a LW color scheme guy

[pervert]

this is my fav k4 skin pretty mad looking colorscheme and good job by fencer! heres the original plane.