I hate russia.

[evenhaim]

boroda finally chimed in

[Viking]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Too many to list.

Then you should have no problem with mentioning a couple of incidents, or at least one. Pick one randomly if you must.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Viking
And the Soviets could shoot you down wherever they want since they were a huge nuclear  superpower while you were just an annoying speck at their borders.

Not without violating international law and making themselves guilty of acts of war, no.

Which shoot down would that be?

8th of April 1950, a US Navy Privateer. Crew of 10, all died. If memory serves me right, it was even shot down in Swedish airspace. Between Gotland and the mainland.

Edit. No, I remembered wrong. The incident between Gotland and the mainland was after the april shootdown, and the US aircraft was only damaged but managed to return to base. After that incident, the US stopped using the Baltic route.

The fact is that both the RAF and USAAF (CIA) were regularly violating Soviet airspace at the time.

Perhaps, but not via the Baltic. After the shoot-down above, we were the only ones doing these ELINT-runs over the Baltic.

We were the best at it too, which is why we were supplied with the latest state of the art ELINT equipment by the Americans in exchange for info.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Boroda
Ask Toad about his job in the Air Force where he was "plotting ingress routes" for your bombers. US spy planes did violate Soviet airspace routinely several times a week for decades.

Yep, that's what we did. And if the Soviets had ever decided to take Western Europe the way they did Eastern Poland, you would have found out how well we did that job.

As for violationg Soviet airspace: Pure BS.

The US and the rest of the international community (ICAO) recognizes a 12 mile limit. Outside 12 miles offshore you are in international airspace. We NEVER crossed inside 12 miles during my service in the late '70's. Period.

But the telling fact is how many Soviet spy planes or civilian aircraft were shot down off the coast of the United States. That number would be zero. The count for the Soviets is well up into double digits.

Pretty much says it all.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Boroda
Wasn't it Swedish state that admitted several years ago that Swedish planes were used by American intelligence on spy-missions since late-40s?...
 

No, they were used by us. Sometimes we had members of the US armed forces as passengers on these flights, but that was not too common.

We traded information with the US and UK however. In exchange we got the latest tech, and we were held in quite high regard when it came to ELINT back in those days.

We can do stuff like that if we want, since we are a sovereign nation.

Fact remains. The DC-3 (C-47) was shot down over international waters. It had not violated soviet airspace. Two days later the PBY Catalina on search and rescue was shot down. Also over international waters. Also without ever having violated soviet airspace.

[DREDIOCK]

The Merry Minuet

[Shifty]

It's okay for you to hate Russia Hortlund.

Just like it's okay for Viking to hate America.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Not without violating international law and making themselves guilty of acts of war, no.

And what does international law and acts of war mean when it is a superpower that is acting against a tiny neutral country like Sweden? Nothing. It’s not like Sweden would do anything except protest … if that.

Originally posted by Hortlund
8th of April 1950, a US Navy Privateer. Crew of 10, all died. If memory serves me right, it was even shot down in Swedish airspace. Between Gotland and the mainland.

Edit. No, I remembered wrong. The incident between Gotland and the mainland was after the april shootdown, and the US aircraft was only damaged but managed to return to base. After that incident, the US stopped using the Baltic route.

And that was ”less than a year” before the Swedish DC-3 was shot down … like you claimed?

Originally posted by Hortlund
And you seem to be missinformed as usual, the US was not flying this route at all at the time. This because a US aircraft had been shot down in the same area less than a year before. So much for the uninterceptable US spy planes flying there on a weekly basis. [/B]

So, who’s misinformed? You as usual.

And mind you I never mentioned anything about a ”Baltic route” or ”in the same area”. At the time the western allies were regularly violating international law and invading Soviet airspace, both in the east and west, with military planes that the Soviets were having problems intercepting. And then the Swedes start flying a slow easy target down their Baltic coastline. They use the opportunity to send a message to the west. International law was not respected by either side in those times.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Shifty
It's okay for you to hate Russia Hortlund.

Just like it's okay for Viking to hate America.

... and for you to hate me.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Viking
... and for you to hate me.

Don't hate ya Viking, in fact I'm glad you're here. I don't always like what you have to say, but I always enjoying reading it.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Viking
And what does international law and acts of war mean when it is a superpower that is acting against a tiny neutral country like Sweden?

[/b]
The same as always.

And that was ”less than a year” before the Swedish DC-3 was shot down … like you claimed?

Nit-picking semantics now are we? The incident where the US plane was damaged was less than a year before. The privateer getting shot down was more than a year before.

So, who’s misinformed? You as usual.

Actually Viking, I know quite alot about this, while you are googling your way to knowledge. See Ive actually worked with trying to find the DC-3. Ive spent days in Swedish archives going over all the documents there is on this incident. See I used to work for a wreck-salvaging company before I went to the court, and we were looking for the DC-3 because it would be an enormous PR-win if we found what the Swedish navy had been unable to find for 50+ years.

So Ive read the documents, including the radio-logs for those days. So I know for example that after the shoot-down of the Catalina, all Swedish naval units and aircraft were ordered to shoot on sight if any soviet fighter appeared. Yes, shoot on sight, not fire if fired upon, or fire if they make any hostile movement...fire on sight.  Thats how tense the situation was, and you didnt know that.

I also know where the soviet submarines were sighted off Gotland those days, and I know which destroyers found which oil-spills and where. And I know WHY the DC-3 were out that day.

Want to know why Viking?

Because the Soviets had just launched a brand new cruiser, the Sverdlov, and it was on manuevers together with a bunch of soviet fleet units off Estonia. Everyone wanted the fingerprints of the Sverdlov radar, so therefore we were out that day.

Now, back to google little tard. Check the dates to see when the Sverdlov was launched, check the internet for information about what type of ship the Sverdlov was...google your way to knowledhge and then you can come back here and pretend you knew all these things already.

And mind you I never mentioned anything about a ”Baltic route” or ”in the same area”.

No, but I did.

[storch]

Originally posted by Viking
... and for you to hate me.

well I don't hate you.  I think you are a pinhead but hate is a special emotion reserved for people who's dogs poop on my path at home.

[ghi]

Originally posted by Hortlund
There you have it.

I dont know why that disgusting, evil, monstrous nation still exist

 every nation is made out of human souls,with dreams, hopes, good and bad peoples, rich and poor,not only politicians you see on Tv
 I traveled in Russia, i ussed to work with russians for many years in Europe,on the cruise lines, here in Canada  and are great peoples,
 You hate something you don't know, do you have a passport? before you hate,go see them, touch a russian beauty, i'm sure you'll find those poor girls in Stokholm Club also,
   Your cheap troll thread post shows a narrow mind washed by politicians in the news

[Hortlund]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6901346.stm

Well, its not just me it seems.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Viking
... and for you to hate me.

No hate for you, just hope.




The hope that you slip and impale yourself on a jar of peanut butter.