Author Topic: Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?  (Read 1266 times)

Offline C(Sea)Bass

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« on: July 17, 2007, 02:23:06 AM »
It seems to me that they aircraft selected were picked with little thought to production nmbers as we are missing some very heavily produced aircraft, and have some that barely saw service.

Here are a few examples.
800 tempests made (which we have)
20,000 I-16's made(which we do not have)

698 Ki-67's made
11,461 Wellingtons made

other major missing peices:
9558 P-39's
7450 He-111's
6600 SB-2's
7002 SB2C's( not realted to SB-2)
5213 Bristol Blenheim's
5000 Il-4's
4835 Ju.52/3m's
30,000 Yak-1's
5919 Ki-43's
5562 Beafighter's
6176 Halifax's

Recon Planes
Although I see little use for these they were built in mass quantities
3290 PBY's
2900 Fi.156's
   Since I have recon I'll add these, maybe make noobs fly them for two weeks before they fly anything else?  You guessed it, Trainers!
20,000 Polikarpov PO-2's
15,000 AT-6 Texan's
11,020 Avro Ansons
and just cause i like the name
4000 Bu.131 Jungmann's (Oddly enough USA not GER.)

Offline Larry

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Re: Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2007, 03:51:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
It seems to me that they aircraft selected were picked with little thought to production nmbers as we are missing some very heavily produced aircraft, and have some that barely saw service.

Here are a few examples.
800 tempests made (which we have)
20,000 I-16's made(which we do not have)


I wouldnt say they were "picked with little thought to production nmbers". More of a we need a so and so type of plane. Or ones that are popular. I dont see the I-16 coming to AH unless we ever have a Operation Barbarossa CT. Two .30cal MGs arent for MA use.
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Offline Nimrod45

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2007, 08:00:32 AM »
No they do not care in the least,
We have a NIKI
We don't have a P-39

Need I say more

Offline Soulyss

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2007, 09:51:10 AM »
To the best of my memory, HTC has never publically stated what goes into the decision making process governing what gets added and when.  Course I've been wrong before.  

One way or the other I wouldn't expect them to let us know what that process is.
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I blame mir.

Offline Tilt

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 10:52:36 AM »
Bring the Polikarpov PO-2 to Aces High!



and enable it at Vehicle Fields in the Night Witch markings............

http://pratt.edu/~rsilva/witches.htm
Ludere Vincere

Offline Masherbrum

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 12:20:23 PM »
Just give me an I.A.R. 81c!!!!!
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 12:34:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nimrod45
No they do not care in the least,

We don't have a P-39

Need I say more



Actually you do.  The community voted and the P-39 lost out to the B-25.  But you wouldn't know that because 1) You don't read the front page 2) you're new to this game.

Now carry on, you're dismissed.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
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Offline Masherbrum

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 12:55:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Actually you do.  The community voted and the P-39 lost out to the B-25.  But you wouldn't know that because 1) You don't read the front page 2) you're new to this game.

Now carry on, you're dismissed.

ack-ack
:aok   :rofl
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Offline tedrbr

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Re: Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 03:11:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
It seems to me that they aircraft selected were picked with little thought to production numbers as we are missing some very heavily produced aircraft, and have some that barely saw service.
 


Have to remember that it is a game.  

Not all aircraft produced during the war would be fun to fly in the arena, save for the occasional masochist looking for the ultimate challenge.   There is a limited amount of resources (money, coding and testing time) that HTC can put toward adding new aircraft, maps, and features, especially with the ToD project (if it hasn't become vaporware) and on a game that has been around as long as this one has.  

You have to add content under the above constraints that will add game play to your customer base in order to keep that base and attract new players.  It is a game, and HTC has a business model to follow.  It's not primarily a historical re-creation.  You can't have everything, and "filling a hole in the plane-set" or "it would be cool" are not by themselves a good enough reason to include a ride in the game (although they are widely given arguments in the forums).

Example: the Buffalo, Ki-27, Macchi MC.200, I-16 and other EW planes would make a great deal of sense, if there was a big EW arena following, or many EW events in SEA with a good turnout to use them.  Possibly also be added if ToD ever gets released and there is a strong interest in EW there.
The reality is most of the players hang in LW and in LW rides.  That's your primary customer base.  The one's you want to keep paying to keep playing.

Example: recon planes, trainers, float planes, maritime patrol craft.  
Lot's of them produced as WWII spanned the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans with the sub war and attacks on convoys and merchant shipping.  Recon planes flew over the battlefields to photograph troops movements and spot for artillery.  We don't have much in the way of mass troop movements, there are planes in the existing plane-sets that can be used in the role of spotter planes, and there is no artillery, submarines or merchant shipping to worry about in the game.  

Example: We don't have nighttime in the war arenas, nor do we have on-board early generation night vision or in-plane radar arrays, so, no need for night fighters.  But, they keep getting asked for in the forums.  

You compared the Ki-67 and the Wellington.  The Ki-67 is the only representative of the Japanese bomber forces in the game, and arguably the best model they made so it can be pressed into SEA service as a reasonable substitute for other Japanese medium bombers.  The British already have the Lancaster to represent British Heavy bombers, ergo: no Betty's and no Wellingtons.  

The Tempest is an elite plane, a worthy perk ride to spend points on.  Similarly, the Fiat G.55 would make a decent low perk ride for the Italian plane set.  Only about 350 made, IIRC, small numbers overall in the War, but probably the best Italian plane made and a significant number when compared to other Italian plane production numbers (similar to the Niki's in the game for the Japanese).  

Why would you bother adding the Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa "Oscar"?  A lighter, less rugged plane than the Zeke, and (outside of a few Mark 3b models) under-armed with a pair of bee-bee guns.  There are a very few pilots that would fly it for the challenge, or the maneuverability it possessed, but trying to get enough pilots into them for a SEA event would be like pulling teeth.  It would be a hangar queen, and completely outclassed in war arenas and underrepresented in SEA.
Similarly, the Ki-100 is close enough to the Ki-61 that a second model for it is not really the best use of limited development time.  

 
You can't have everything.


So, instead of simply production numbers, think about what else a potential plane added to the game can add to the game play.  What is different about it?  What role would it perform?
Examples:

Mitsubishi J2M "Raiden" could offer a quick short ranged ability to intercept incoming buffs on short notice --- like a 163 but available at all fields.
The A-26B Invader Attack Bomber and A-26C Invader Level Bomber (with drones) would be a perk-worthy medium bomber for buff drivers to spend perk points on other than the Arado that can work in penetration bomber or ground attack roles.
The Mosquito B.Mk XVI as a level bomber with drone options would be another perkable ride for buff drivers to spend points on, and try to limit the number of "bomb-and-bails" and suicidal "dive buffs" experienced in the game (right now, buff drivers don't really need their perks, and Arado is not flown by very many).
The Fiat G.55 would be a low perk Italian ride that many Luffenwobble pilots would probably enjoy flying and has a great canon load out. Perk price added to limit it's use due to historically low production numbers, but a fun ride nonetheless.
The Nakajima Ki-44 Shōki "Tojo" would add a Japanese plane that could B&Z, haul butt, and actually climb at a decent rate for an interceptor role.
The P-39 Airacobra (or even P-63 Kingcobra, which would fair better in LW) could be added to the Russian plane set as a nod to Lend Lease, as well as the second highest scoring Allied Ace of the War who flew one, and the Russians made the best use of this plane during WWII.  It is in many ways a low level Pony, would find use in Russian front SEA, and would be a unique ride with it's mid-engine design and CG, and should do well in the low level dogfighting found in the War Arenas.
The D4Y2 "Judy" would give the blue water plane set a pretty good dive bomber from MW onward.  Better than existing Japanese CV-based egg droppers.  
Possibly the Yak-3, as it was considered probably the best furballer of WWII.  Yak 3 was an air superiority fighter to the Yak-9's interceptor role. Actual in-game performance numbers would determine if it was worth pursuing this addition to Yak lineup.  
The He-177 would add a Heavy bomber for the Axis.  Something that is seriously lacking for SEA event variety.  Carries a bit more than the Lanc could in overall ord weight (depending on how ord would be represented, as we would not be getting guided Fritz-X missiles) and is faster than the Lanc (which may require a small perk price added to the He-177's use).
The towed German 88mm FlaK36 offers the ability of GVr's to use the weapon as a manned puffy ack against incoming buffs, long range indirect artillery fire (which is not represented in the game other than the CA guns), and as a long range direct fire weapon against other GV's.  


There are certainly other planes that can be argued for in an effort to fill out plane sets, and certainly the non-American plane set's are pretty light, especially Russian, Japanese and Italian.  But adding a plane due to historical production numbers that will sit in the hangar in the game is not the way to go about it.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 03:13:52 PM by tedrbr »

Offline Nimrod45

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 03:20:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Actually you do.  The community voted and the P-39 lost out to the B-25.  But you wouldn't know that because 1) You don't read the front page 2) you're new to this game.

Now carry on, you're dismissed.

ack-ack


Blah Blah Blah.
Wasn't refering to the decicion between those to, B-25s were used and produced very heavilly, if you would care to recap my whole comment I refered to the Niki which was not produced or used heavilly, nor were a lot of our aircraft options.  If they considered the number of aircraft produced then our selection would be very different.

But thanks for your comment, ignorence is entertaining.

Now carry on, your dissed.

Offline C(Sea)Bass

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 04:53:05 PM »
I didnt mean for my post to be understood as though I wanted those planes added. I just thought it should be pointed out that it seems production has lttle to do with selection of aircraft. I do understand that they need to keep the customers happy as any business does, but some more attention should be paid to these aircraft in the future as I know some do have a reasonable base of people who would use them, for example the SB2C.

Offline Nimrod45

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2007, 05:13:44 PM »
You are absolutly right CBASS, that is what I was commenting on the first time about the P-39 and the Niki, one was produced in great numbers and one wasn't, we have the one that wasn't though it is a very fun plane to fly.  Obviously Ack-Ack misunderstood my comment as well.  And I was part of the vote when the B-25 was selected so I was not ignorent to that little tid bit he so politly enlitend me on.

Offline Knegel

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Re: Re: Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 03:57:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
Have to remember that it is a game.  

Not all aircraft produced during the war would be fun to fly in the arena, save for the occasional masochist looking for the ultimate challenge.  


There is more out there than the MA.

The HurriIa, SpitIa, 109E, F4F, A6M´s and even the Yak9T, 109G6 and SpitV need somewhat masochistic pilots, or at least very good pilots to survive in the MA, but there are the events and the H2H limited setups where this planes get used rather often.

Otherwise i think they simply took a wide range of the most interesting WWII planes, which saw service. Interesting regarding their performence and their reputation in general.

The P39 simply miss the good success and reputation of the N1K, Ki84, F4U-4, Temp, Ta152H and even F4F and P40. Of course the VVS aces did like this plane, but if we see the high losts of the VVS with their other main fighters(I-16, Yak1/7/9, La5, La5F and even La5FN), the P39 had to offer something(specialy regarding its cockpit layout, radio, guns etc), while the brit´s and American´s mainly took their other planes over it.  Maybe the P40 and F4F was in he same class, but the P40 had its big success with the Flying Tigers and the F4F was the Navys backbone while the critical years of the PTO.  

Personally i would like to see the MS406, I-16, Yak1 + 1b, Mig3, a early IL-2, F2A, Ju87G-2(gunpods for the D would be enough), Ki-43, He111, Welli, Pe-2 and Hawk75 before the P39, no matter in what numbers they got produced.


Greetings,

Knegel

Offline Larry

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2007, 04:02:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nimrod45
Squeak




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Offline Ghosth

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Does Number of aircraft produced matter to AH?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2007, 07:15:13 AM »
Actually Cbass the planes you listed would make a good "wish list" for AH.

Granted there are a LOT of planes I'd like to see added.
I'd love to see HTC do nothing for a whole year but add planes.
But then I'm greedy.

Some planes are here that perhaps shouldn't be, looking at production numbers. Yet others with big production numbers have never been added.

I suspect a lot had to do with interest of the people involved.