How am I shooting?

[LYNX]

Originally posted by Vulcan
It makes no difference to you because of your primary ride. In some rides in makes a difference, the 190A5 in particular has far better performance with the aft tank half gone and the bb's emptied. I fly it in the 2 x 20mm configuration, and with that I can give a lot of spits a run for their money in knife fights.

I have to concede I don't use 190's.  So tonight I got ya 190A5 out for a couple of spins.  Firstly I used the 2x20 2x20 2x7.9s + 100% fuel.  No drop tank.  Standard 275 convergence.  First thing I noticed was the aft tank drains on auto.  Was wondering if I should have drained the forward tank by 1/2 first but after asking was told to use the aft first.  Which it does automatically. I had a half decent fight will a F4U. We traded 6's a few times.  Also shot down some P51's and a b17 from a low 7 to 4 O'clock slash.  Was impressed it torched the 17.

Then I did the 2x20 2x7.9s + 100% fuel.  Standard convergence.  Kept the tanks on auto.  Now don't get me wrong when I say the following.  I didn't really notice a difference to the overall flying ability.  I am aware this could be ME.  After all I only did 6 sorties and I am not a AH test pilot or profess to be one.  However, if there was any difference I didn't notice it.  Any difference wasn't an "in your face" obvious difference.  Perhaps more time in the A5 would allow me an accurate opinion.  In saying that though I managed 11 Kills to 5 deaths in a plane I don't use. Those 7.9's which it seems to get through with ease, reminds me how I use the spit 5.  Get in close pinging away with the 303's then thump out some 20's when you know your not missing.


There are many planes in AH which have CoG's that can be tweaked by fuel and ammo loading, and this can have a marked performance on flight, especially when you push things to the edge of the envelope.

It is not a myth, perhaps you think it is because you spend little time in such planes?

I agree with you certain planes do benefit from fuels being used in a certain order, to improve their handling characteristics.  Wing tanks on spit8's(auto), spit14's, Ki61's, P47N's and so on.  From what I experienced from my 190 sorties tonight I come to the same conclusion.  It's a myth.  

You'll see guys in 110's doing it with the rear gun.  I've seen guys in D3A's doing it with the rear gun and a few 190 guys blowing their BB's out.

You have some experience in 190A5's.  I'll ask you to try a few sorties without waisting the BB's and you come and tell me if you still feel there's a discernable difference.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by LYNX
Originally posted by Vulcan
You have some experience in 190A5's.  I'll ask you to try a few sorties without waisting the BB's and you come and tell me if you still feel there's a discernable difference.

Yes there is to me, but I like to fly the A5 a lot.

My SOP is 100% + DT, 2 x 20mm, take off, switch manually to AFT and drain it to 50%. Empty BB's. Once engaged drop DT (autoswtiches to AFT).

I find the 20mm ammo alone is usually enough relative to the remaining fuel (full fwd, 50% aft).

The other reason is I like to know if I'm hitting with the 20mm. I fly with tracers off... not to be l33t but because tracers through my aim off (long story).  So I know those hit sprites are 20mm hits

[froger]

Theres enough EGOS on this post to run a republican governmant..

 Wait a minute,, any of you (experianced sticks) work at the white house.?

LooooooooL

froger:eek:

[LYNX]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Yes there is to me, but I like to fly the A5 a lot.

My SOP is 100% + DT, 2 x 20mm, take off, switch manually to AFT and drain it to 50%. Empty BB's. Once engaged drop DT (autoswtiches to AFT).

I find the 20mm ammo alone is usually enough relative to the remaining fuel (full fwd, 50% aft).

The other reason is I like to know if I'm hitting with the 20mm. I fly with tracers off... not to be l33t but because tracers through my aim off (long story).  So I know those hit sprites are 20mm hits

Sorry chap but all you've told me is your set in your ways.  Clearly some habit you've gotten into some time ago.  Couple of reasons makes me say this.  Your manually configuring fuel when in fact the 190A5 nowadays AUTO empties the aft tank from the get go.  You don't need to mess with fuel unless you want the forward tank partly drained...for what ever reason.  Also time of post.  You had 30 mins to evaluate flying with the full ammo load in any configurations of your choice. Your sentence Yes there is to me  didn't mention anything about trying, as I requested, with a full load.

I'd say you owe it to yourself to at least have a TRY with a full BB load.  I'll wager your experience now will make up for any "perceived" gains from LONG ago.  As for knowing the sprits are 20 mill if you fire the 7.9's and get sprits you can then just bang off a bunch of 20's.  

Up to you friend it's your game your fun time but using the suggestion above will save you ammo for MORE kills even if you don't give a monkeys uncle about hit percent.

[bj229r]

Simple test is to watch E6B whilst ya empty plane of said ammo--you can 'see the pounds come off'...but as said before, 75-odd pounds in a 11,000 pound plane isn't terribly significant

[trax1]

I have to agree with LYNX about wasting your BB's, I really doubt that they effect the performance of the plane enough to be worth losing the extra ammo.  The trade off just doesn't seem to be worth it.

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by bj229r
Simple test is to watch E6B whilst ya empty plane of said ammo--you can 'see the pounds come off'...but as said before, 75-odd pounds in a 11,000 pound plane isn't terribly significant

yeah that works.

i just went offline and rolled a 109A8 onto the rearm pad then shot out all the ammo.

first i did just the BBs - when i reloaded there was hardly a bump as the extra weight comes back.

Next i dumped all the ammo completely - this time there was a notable sag as the reload complete, like a fat person getting into a car.

interesting, but i never said that dumping the BBs in a 190 was hugely beneficial.
what i do say is 'it makes a difference'
i notice lynx, you havnt replied to my last post before this one. funny that.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
like i said, quoted above...  'if only in small fractions'... as vulcan points out it may be alot different than you think in planes youre not accustomed to.

all i am saying here is that having less ammo on board does reduce your weight, and reducing the weight in most of these virtual planes does impact performance to some degree.

I am not advocating dumping ammo, when i fly a 190A5 i load up as much ammo and cannons as possible, just like you i like to have surplus at my disposal rather than the decrease in load weight.

as dedalos said, dumping ammo in DA isnt going to get you silky skills if you cant beat the opponent anyhow.

As Vulcan points out, in a hurricane2c you can afford to take 100% and drop tanks and it still zips around like an RV8. same with the high end spits. La7 pilot would be a fool not to load 100% every time with our X2 burn rate.

Equally, we can concede, flying the 190 weight is not an issue if you intend to fly from the advantage the whole time and not risk pushing your luck

but youre flying your arse off in a P47 trying to rope something far more nimble in a situation where 50yrds extra climb is the difference between being raked with hispano or flipping over just out of reach and doing the raking yourself. in the 190 it might make that difference between snap stalling at the critical moment or rolling a perfect manouver and lining up an easy shot that you wont ever get a second chance on.

the 'myth' as you call it is indeed very real, its a subtle thing though, not an obvious awareness, only really noticed by those that really 'feel' the virtual aircraft they fly.


 if you are not pushing the plane you fly right to the edge and learning to control that fine line then obviously it 'dont matter a rats arse'

OK Battie your a very naughty boy.  Your putting words in Vulcans mouth which he didn't speak.  Secondly your sending mixed messages.  Thirdly you keep punting this "edge myth" malarkey contrary to your own use of the 190's.  Double standard spiel.  I wonder if Doom unloads his7.9's.

Whats is to be mate.  You either concede It don't matter a RATS ARSE or it does.  One or tuther chap.

Glad you don't advocate blowing ammo needlessly.  Happy to hear you take all the ammo loads available as I do.  Pleased as punch you agree with Dedalos but whats this load of bollocks

but you're flying your arse off in a P47 trying to rope something far more nimble in a situation where 50yrds extra climb is the difference between being raked with hispano or flipping over just out of reach and doing the raking yourself. in the 190 it might make that difference between snap stalling at the critical moment or rolling a perfect manouver and lining up an easy shot that you wont ever get a second chance on.

Look mate.  In the analogy above you either get it right or you balls it up.  It don't matter a RATS ARSE irrespective of your fuel or ammo state.  That little snippet is about as water tight as the Titanic when it comes to purposely blowing ammo.  In fact your arguing that your Auntie could be your Uncle if for the appropriate appendages.

You say your main points are "if only in small fractions"  and  " or where i said it makes a HUGE difference....... it makes A difference, that is what i said, and that is what is true. "

To which all will concede less ammo = less weight= slightly better performance.  However Battie me ol fruit cake all will  concede with an equally profound nod of the head, It don't matter a RATS ARSE .

[LYNX]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV

i notice lynx, you havnt replied to my last post before this one. funny that.

Sorry for not jumping to.  R/L if you must know...read above:rolleyes:

[B@tfinkV]

well, you had time to address vulcan's post right after mine, no matter. hope everything is ok for you in RL.

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lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat.


as you fly out to merge the opponent says

'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge'



this wouldnt matter a rat's arse to you?

[trax1]

After reading everything writen here I still think that just getting rid of your BB's isn't gonna give you and edge big enough to be worth losing the extra ammo.

[LYNX]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
well, you had time to address vulcan's post right after mine, no matter. hope everything is ok for you in RL.

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lets say you have a duel set up in a 190A5 with someone you really want to beat.


as you fly out to merge the opponent says

'hey im going to dump half my ammo and I've been flying around for 10 minutes already on WEP to burn a bit of fuel off, But you lynx, must fly with the maximum ammo load and have only burnt off enough fuel to get to the merge'

this wouldn't matter a rat's arse to you?

Your trying to argue your Auntie is your Uncle again.  Your tying to insinuate a situation opposite to your belief as aligned with that of Dedalos.

Your obviously not going to concede the point.  

Here's a thought for you.  This thread was supposedly about hit% in the MA but if I'm to be drawn on any aspect of your little fantasy above I can only tell you the truth.  Everyone in the MA including you and I do this every time we take our virtual planes to the virtual fight. We (collectively) have no idea what the enemy planes present fuel or ammo state is.  Neither do they of ours.  We fight with a limited knowledge of the enemies planes statistics and general performance.  Supposedly safe in the knowledge of our own planes abilities and our present state of ammo, fuel, "E" state and our own abilities as virtual AH fighter aces:rolleyes:

Now you either win the fight or you lose.  Simple as that.  You didn't win because you pissed away your 190A5 BB's, 110's rear gun, D3a rear gun, Spits 303's or 50 cals you won because you gained an advantage in the fight.  You lost the fight because you gave an advantage to the enemy.  It isn't down to BB load outs mattie and all your doing is perpetuating a AH myth.  To which my standard answer through out this thread has been It don't matter a RATS ARSE .  

Unfortunately me old fruit cake you are starting to come across as an arse that doesn't matter.

[B@tfinkV]

you didnt answer my question.
looks like im done with you seeing as all you can do is evade.

.....unless you would like to answer the 'fantasy' question i asked in the above quote.



funny how for you something like that is an example, whereas for me its a fantasy.

good day to you.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by LYNX
Sorry chap but all you've told me is your set in your ways.  Clearly some habit you've gotten into some time ago.  Couple of reasons makes me say this.  Your manually configuring fuel when in fact the 190A5 nowadays AUTO empties the aft tank from the get go.  You don't need to mess with fuel unless you want the forward tank partly drained...for what ever reason.

And all you've told me is you don't listen/read - possibly think through what your responding with. If a 190A5 rolls with 100% DT, which fuel drains first? Think about it.

[Major Biggles]

LYNX, there is a difference. you can definitely feel it. look at the pony for instance. at 100% fuel the aft tank is full and you can really feel it low and slow on the edge of the envelope. it feels to rear heavy.

roll it with 75% and it feels FAR more responsive.

dumping ammo does make a difference. like bat said, it's not huge, but it DOES make a difference. it's certainly not going to win a fight for you, just dumping some ammo, but it DOES make a SMALL difference.