has this one been done -emil?

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Krusty
No way, can't be!

That camo was rare and on the way "out" by the time of BOB (IMO), there's no way you'd find it on Eastern Front planes!

Then again, it's hard to even find pics of it on the Western front, eh?

Sorry I can't add to the mystery, but just from what I've seen previously, I don't think there's any way it was Eastern Front.

Krusty, think about the JG54 camo schemes on both their 109s and 190s on the Eastern Front.  Yeah I know they are Fs but the 109Es were still going in the fighter bomber role at that point.

All late 41-early 42

[Krusty]

Perhaps, but those paint schemes really didn't start showing up until much later Fs and Gs were on the scene. At the time of Barbarossa, there were only 109Es left in service as jabo units, cobbled together from E-4/bs and E-7s and whatever was flying. They were almost as a rule using the high-demarcation line camo, and were phased out by the end of 1941. Some 109s are seen in blotch pattern camouflagues later, but there are few units that used them, and it wasn't green/green. I think some cases were training unit planes that were pressed into front line service.

Again, I'm no expert, but I think it's unrelated. It's separated by 2 years of dissimilar camo.

[Guppy35]

The point remains the same however.  A profile is the artists impression.  There has to be some photo that sent them down that path.

109Es from Russia early 42 and a JG77 bird late 41.  Not too hard to get lost in interpreting the camo  How much green and how far down does it go?  Is the lighter area just above the wing where the camo blends or is it just a result of the engine exhaust trail weathering the green camo?  your guess is as good as mine.  I'd suggest the exhaust has done it, but the profile guy has gone with the camo lightening up.  who knows for sure?




JG77 Norway 41

[Krusty]

That is an interesting way of looking at it (interpretation gone wrong), but there is a set style for the early splinter camo, and the skeleton riding on the side of the cockpit (see on early green/green camo and on BOB-era "clean sides" camo) dates the profile as an early one.

I mean, you'd have to be one dumb SOB of an artist to see a late Eastern Front field-applied camo and come up with an early factory-applied profile

I agree the artist could have totally bungled things, and that without some further evidence it's not likely that it's historically accurate.

[Guppy35]

Ahh, we agree  Without further back up support, it's hard to buy into the original profile

Where i think it could be easy to make the mistake is that there were still early style canopy E-3s flying at the beginning of the Russian campaign.  I was surprised to come across the photos in the JG54 photo history. but they had pointed spinners with no opening to go with them so they had to be later time frame.

Originally posted by Krusty
That is an interesting way of looking at it (interpretation gone wrong), but there is a set style for the early splinter camo, and the skeleton riding on the side of the cockpit (see on early green/green camo and on BOB-era "clean sides" camo) dates the profile as an early one.

I mean, you'd have to be one dumb SOB of an artist to see a late Eastern Front field-applied camo and come up with an early factory-applied profile

I agree the artist could have totally bungled things, and that without some further evidence it's not likely that it's historically accurate.

[Krusty]

I saw similar photos when researching my 109F skins from the same time frame. Many 109E-3s were retro-fitted to E-4 status, and some later E3/4 models were given pointed spinners.


I guess if a replacement is needed, and the craft in question is mostly ground attack, they don't care if the parts are up to standard, as long as they're compatible. Those ground crews worked very hard to keep those planes working, and I've heard similar stories of Boyington's boys in the PTO as well.