Allied vs Allied vs Allied...... Axis who?

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by USCH
but they DID have CV planes.. the 109 and Ju 87 were both made in CV aircraft but the ship was never finished...

And neither was operational on cv so we cant have it. I belive the 109T was a variation of the old crappy E (crappy by mid-late war standards) ended up in norway.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by Grits
I think what we really need is a few more versions of the P-38.

No one likes you.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Slash27
No one likes you.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Grits
I think what we really need is a few more versions of the P-38.

Check is in the mail Grits

[hubsonfire]

Originally posted by Grits
I think what we really need is a few more versions of the P-38.

After the addition of the B-25, we've got quite enough US bombers, TYVM.

[Rino]

Loving all the whining about what "we" need.  I think any addition is
a good thing, period.

[Karnak]

tedrbr,

Well, the Japanese could get the H8K2 'Emily' flying boat.  It was kinda rare though.  It was fully protected with crew armor and self sealing tanks.  Had five 20mm Type 99 Model Is and a number of 7.92mm machine guns (including one ventral) for defensive fire. (Allied nickname was "Flying Porcupine")  Was powered by four 1,800hp engines with a climb rate of over 1,500ft/min.  It's bombload was eight 250kg (550lb) bombs or two 1,500kg (3,300lb) bombs, or two torpedoes.


As far as the Germans go, you overlooked the Ju188A.  It was better then the Do217 and while perhaps not as good on paper as the He177, it was far better in actuality.  More than 1000 built.

It is also one of the prettiest bombers of WWII.

[yanksfan]

Originally posted by BennyBeaver
axis had no cv planes  they had no cv's

Axis includes both germany and japan along with italy and finland few others, not sure who, altho i believe finland primarily fought the russians, japan had plenty of cv's

[Shifty]

Originally posted by SpikesX
are you stupid?

A6M2
A6M5b
B5N
D3A

Yes, he is.

No doubt the game is missing quite a few Axis rides. I'm not sure if it would help the AVA, because the majority of people want to fly MA where they have more choice............ Poor misguided individuals.

I'd love to see more axis planes added, and more attendance in the AVA. I just don't see it happening.

Nilsen is correct the Bf-109T was designed for use on the German carrier Graf Zepplin, which never became operational. The 109Ts were based on the 109E with a longer wingspan and aresstor gear for carrier ops. They ended up being used in Norway with JG-11, or JG-5.

[BlauK]

Originally posted by yanksfan
Axis includes both germany and japan along with italy and finland few others, not sure who, altho i believe finland primarily fought the russians, japan had plenty of cv's

Just FYI:

Surely Finland is usually counted as an Axis country, but there is still a clear difference from how e.g. Italy, Hungary or Bulgaria belonged to the Axis

Finland fought ONLY against the Russians, not just "primarily". Finland also never signed any treaty to join Axis, but remained a "brother in arms" in a joined fight against a common enemy.

This difference also made it more difficult for the Finns to buy weapons from Germany. Naturally Germans were more generous to their signed allies that to ones trying to stay outside.

[tedrbr]

Originally posted by Karnak
tedrbr,
Well, the Japanese could get the H8K2 'Emily' flying boat.  It was kinda rare though.  It was fully protected with crew armor and self sealing tanks.  Had five 20mm Type 99 Model Is and a number of 7.92mm machine guns (including one ventral) for defensive fire. (Allied nickname was "Flying Porcupine")  Was powered by four 1,800hp engines with a climb rate of over 1,500ft/min.  It's bombload was eight 250kg (550lb) bombs or two 1,500kg (3,300lb) bombs, or two torpedoes.

Aside from discounting float planes, flying boats, and  maritime patrol planes due to lack of historical missions for those plane types, and the limited development resources to bring to bear, there is yet another reason to avoid them:  Wouldn't adding flying boats require a change to the way water is modeled in the game, and the water tiles, and all the maps?  It would seem to be a big project to add one plane type to the game.  

As far as the Germans go, you overlooked the Ju188A.  It was better then the Do217 and while perhaps not as good on paper as the He177, it was far better in actuality.  More than 1000 built.
It is also one of the prettiest bombers of WWII.

I don't discount the Ju188 (or the Ju88S), but the Ju188 was a continuation of the Ju88 design philosophy, whereas either the He-177(especially) or the Do217 would be a whole different addition.  A whole new plane to play with.  Add the Ju-188, you just send the Ju-88A to the back of the hangar to sit next to the Arado, Kate and Val.   Why add a plane that will make an existing one obsolete in most cases, when you can add a totally new model?  Personally, of the JU-88S, Ju-188, Do217, and the He-177, I prefer the He-177 because of it's speed and heavy load out, it could command a small buff perk price for it and drones.... and I still believe the buffs need another perk sink other than the Arado.

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Shifty


Nilsen is correct the Bf-109T was designed for use on the German carrier Graf Zepplin, which never became operational. The 109Ts were based on the 109E with a longer wingspan and aresstor gear for carrier ops. They ended up being used in Norway with JG-11, or JG-5.

Yup. They were stationed at Lista, Herdla, Sola and Vaernes airfields in 1941. Cant find any records of them in 1942 so they were prolly replaced by newer models or moved again.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by tedrbr
After reading the Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ??? thread, among other topics, I looked at a few numbers and trends in the game.

The Allies have 54 vehicles and aircraft modeled.
The Axis have 31 vehicles and aircraft modeled.

The Allies have 49 vehicles and aircraft for European Theater of Operations (ETO) use.
The Axis have 23 vehicles and aircraft for ETO use.

The Allies have about 45 vehicles and aircraft for Pacific Theater of Operation Use.
The Axis have 8 vehicles and aircraft for PTO use.

The Allies have 5 aircraft (9 if you throw in Lend-Lease P40's, Hurris, Spits, and C-47's) to fly on the Russian Front, the Axis has about 16 or 17.  

The Allies have 10 CV enabled planes to the Axis 4 CV planes.
The Allies have 3 heavy bombers to the Axis 1 heavy bomber.
The Allies have 5 land based medium buffs and heavy attack planes to the Axis 4 plus 1 jet bomber.

Versions and Additions.
04/2007 ver 2.10 Added Sherman Firefly
11/2006 ver 2.09 Added F4UA1
03/2006 ver 2.07 Added the Jeep, B-17 updated
11/2005 ver 2.06 Spit and 109 lineup changes: Added Bf 109G-14, Spitfire XVI, Spitfire VIII. Changed the 109G-10 to a 109K-4. Changed the Spitfire Vc to a Vb
07/2005 ver 2.04 P47N (?)
01/2005 ver 2.02 Added P38 F (? later G) and J
11/2004 ver 2.01 Added B24J, T34, and Ki84
06/2004 ver 2.00
before that was Beta
If anyone has a correction to that, or could add the history of additions prior to ver 2.00, please do.

That's 3 additions in the last 20 months, All Allied.
That's 12 additions in the last 37 months, 10 Allies and 2 Axis.  


If these trends continue, what will the result be for AvA and SEA events?  What about for the future ToD if it ever sees the light of day?  Is the future of the game to be dominated by Allied aircraft facing off in the LW arenas?  
I realize it is an American made game with an American player base slant, but wasn't "fair play" also once considered an American ideal (this is still a game)?  If the Allied, especially Western Allied, plane sets continue to grow and the Axis sets stay stagnant, what will happen to AvA and SEA?

Its a nice try, but most of the time the AvA was ocupied by Axis squads hording picking and vulching.

Second, the fact that the Alies have more plains means nothing.  How many of them are competitive or available in every AvA setting?

[Karnak]

The Ju188 would no more or less send the Ju88 to the back of the hangar than the Do217 would.  They fill the same roll.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by storch
a Ki whatever twin heavy fighter

You talking about the Ki-46?   If so, that'd be a fun one!    As would the Ki-100.