Oshkosh Mustangs video

[VWE]

This is a raw feed, no sound... formation landing is what caused this accident. Formations should be done in the air and not on a runway.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ad_1186036487

[Maverick]

I have to agree with you. It wouldn't have taken any more time really for them to do a standard break and spacing for landing. I mourn the loss of the pilot and even for the plane, this was a tragedy that didn't have to happen. If he had just kicked over and put it on the grass he might have been able to salvage everything. I know it's easy to armchair quarterback it from my chair.

[VWE]

That video should be the begining of every pilot brief at Oshkosh from now on... no more formation takeoffs or landings period.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

There is a way to do formation takeoff and landing, and I'm sure those guys were properly briefed, and probably owned a FAST card.

With the Skytypers we used to take off 5 aircrafts, 3 in a vic, 3 secs, 2 abreast. We landed all 5 stagered. Be we had non standard methods.

At any rate, and I'm not blaming either of those pilots, when you land the lead is usually landing long and keeps rolling fast, just to try to avoid what happened there.

I think the formation flying card calls for landing on the centerline one behind the other, then "call right" once you have your speed under control to let the other guys know they have room for mistakes on the centerline/left side of the runway.

Formation takeoff/landing is not to blame, and probably the most exciting part of flying at an airshow. It is nevertheless a display of skills, and from experience, there is no worst feeling than flying in formation with people you don't know/trust.

[Viking]

He lost sight of his lead plane and didn't peel off. Fatal mistake.

[Maverick]

Even a low time pilot should realize you don't "peel off" 20 to 30 feet AGL.

[VWE]

Here's the NTSB report:

NTSB Identification: CHI07FA243A
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, July 27, 2007 in Oshkosh, WI
Aircraft: Beck P-51A, registration: N8082U
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On July 27, 2007, at 1519 central daylight time, an amateur-built Beck P-51A, Mustang, N8082U, was destroyed during landing approach when it impacted terrain after it collided into the empennage and fuselage of a North American P51-D, Mustang, N151RJ. N151RJ had just landed on runway 36 (8,002 feet by 150 feet, grooved concrete) at the Wittman Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and was starting its landing roll when N8082U struck its empennage and fuselage. N8082U was still airborne at the time of the collision, and it rolled over to the right of the aft fuselage of N151RJ and impacted the terrain in a wings level, inverted attitude. The collision with N8082U pushed N151RJ onto its nose, and N151RJ subsequently skidded down the runway and came to rest about 788 feet from the initial impact point. The pilot in N8082U received fatal injuries, and the pilot in N151RJ was not injured. Both Mustang airplanes departed from OSH as part of a five-aircraft air race demonstration event at the EAA AirVenture 2007 air show. The demonstration air race was completed and the five aircraft were in the process of landing separately, and not in formation, on runway 36. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident.

You know, from watching the video it sure looks like it was a formation landing. And what about the control tower? Do they use some special setup during the event and do they not have a good visual of the runways?

[Viking]

Originally posted by Maverick
Even a low time pilot should realize you don't "peel off" 20 to 30 feet AGL.

I'm not a pilot (yet), even if I have a few hours behind the controls. "Peel off" is perhaps not the correct English terminology, but what he should have done is increase power, increase altitude and move off to the left (unless that would take him over the crowd) and go around.

[Dago]

Originally posted by Viking
I'm not a pilot (yet), even if I have a few hours behind the controls. "Peel off" is perhaps not the correct English terminology, but what he should have done is increase power, increase altitude and move off to the left (unless that would take him over the crowd) and go around.

You cannot go around from a flare in a Mustang.  Very few planes will do a go-around from a flare.   Mustang, as seen in the video will torque roll is you suddenly apply power down low and slow.

[Toad]

The demonstration air race was completed and the five aircraft were in the process of landing separately, and not in formation, on runway 36

Herr Schultz, self-appointed chairman of the ITSB, will now revise his explanation of the accident based upon his vast experience in general aviation and his long history of attending warbird air show briefings.

We await the next bulletin.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Dago
You cannot go around from a flare in a Mustang.  Very few planes will do a go-around from a flare.   Mustang, as seen in the video will torque roll is you suddenly apply power down low and slow.

At the time where he should have aborted the landing he was not flaring. He was still in a slow decent while the first plane was flaring. He should have had no trouble adding power (slowly) and climbing away.

If indeed they were not actually trying to land in formation then that surely supports my argument that Mr. Beck did not see the lead Mustang. And if so that is, if possible, an even greater failure on his part.

[Maverick]

You just keep piling it higher blivet shultz.

[Toad]

Well, ITSB Chairman Schultz, what was the briefed spacing on final? What was the briefed airspeed? Which side of the runway was each plane to use? What touchdown point was briefed for lead and the following aircraft? Did all aircraft adhere to their specific instructions for this recovery?

What contributing factors have you identified in this accident? At what point did the accident chain begin?

I'm sure these are just a few of the questions your investigation has already answered. Please share with us!

[Ghosth]

This hits us hard up here in Fargo North Dakota.

One of 3 p51's in the area trashed and a major pioneer in WWII restoration in the area is gone. The pilot that died is one of the co founders of the Fargo Air Museum.

The other pilot involved is the son of the other founder.

They got their start by rebuilding a TBM out of Honduras that was in crates.

[AquaShrimp]

Formation takeoffs and landings are dangerous.  The Air National Guard used to do formation takeoffs in Louisville until two F-4 Phantoms collided and crashed into a neighborhood.