Different Topic - Air Racing League

[fjaloma]

Many of you are familiar with the Reno Air Races held each September. The Unlimited class is the pinnacle of the race. Featuring modified P51s, Bearcats, Yaks, P38s, Sea Fury's etc. it's very exciting to watch.

I'd like to see some basic changes to the AH Air Racing efforts. Since it's a seperate arena, I think they can code some Air Race Specific planes and equipment much like they already do for the "Early-Mid-Late" arenas.

For example:

Continue to offer the planes they currenlty do, but add "Race Specific" aircraft. Modified P51s, Bearcats, P38s, Yaks etc. (true Reno Race planes) with a standard set of "race trim". Clipped wings, small cannopy, Limited fuel etc. for exmaple.

Flight Model changes would include (in this case) increased top speed due to less surface area of 35 MPH (to pick a number).

Offer loadouts (race trim) in the form of the following:

Instead of 1000 bombs, offer NOS or Water Injection. (only for limited time like current WEP and effect would be over heating if used too much) that's the risk.

Instead of Drop Tanks that increase drag, offer Clipped wings or Smaller Cannopy. Model in reverse of drop tank effect. Instead of increasing drag/weight and slowing the plane down, you increase performance by that same amount and speed the plane up. Say 40 MPH.

Clipped wings would impact turning radius making it harder to turn, but the trade off is speed. Model this much like  combate damage to Ailerons and/or Elevator where roll rate is reduced and turning raduis is increased.  The risk is that you choose what mods you want based on the type of course we fly that day. Wide open course dosen't need tight turns. Tight solom course, hangars etc. would need some nimble turing so you don't select it. YOU choose.. speed or controlability.

I think some of the current flight models will work as they stand or you code them in "reverse". In some cases AH has done some of this work already.

Finally, Race only skins would be a kick. Pick a few real race plane colors, or perhaps some retro-skins from the Reno years of the 60's. Anyone remember who flew the Purple P51 w/ Snoopy on the Tail?  Or how about Conquest 1? One main gear haning down and he still won the race!  I was at Reno for that one! What about RB51 Red Baron. I'd love to see colors like that. Bright colors, red, yellow, green, white, purple, orange etc.

Just some thoughts, but if AH is going to offer a seperate arena, then why not make it race specific?  Being a retired Dir of Validation I don't think the next level is that far off. I realize it's all about resources and priorities, but the foundation has been laid already. I think it's "do-able".  In two years AH could have a kick bellybutton Air Race arena!

Just a few thoughts.

Disco

[Lusche]

I sincerely doubt HTC has the manpower to design and build planes which

A) have nothing to do with WWII warfare
B) are only used by a very minor fraction of the AH community

Ever noticed how long it takes to introduce a new lane? How long CT is in the development phase?

What you ask for would basically mean a whole new game better designed by a new company

[Krusty]

AH races are more like nascar. You get a stock setup and everybody has the same limitations. Mixing in faster planes, well you might as well race with 2 folks in tempests, 5 in typhies, and 10 in huricane2cs. I'll give you 2 guess who will win. Times up! The winner would be the fastest plane.


However, in the AH races, you all have the same craft.

What does it matter if you're all flying P51Ds and the winner wins by 2 seconds? Even if you had the +35mph P51, they'd ALL still have +35mph, and the winner would still win by exactly 2 seconds.

It doesn't change the result, just the time it takes to make a circuit.

You will always be flying with identical planes. So adding "faster" planes doesn't do anything -- you'd ALL have the faster planes!

Want faster planes? Race with faster in-game planes (tempest, 262, 163, whatever rocks your boat).

You don't need new, specialized, highly over-boosted, post-war, unhistorical, aircraft to get that done.

[fjaloma]

Good Points Luche,

I can understand what you're saying, however, I'm not sure I agree.

If AH is willing to put a non WWII event together for a Racing League why not modify some existing flight models to go to the next step?  Since AH introduced the Air Racing League in the first place, I'm not all that convinced they're NOT interested in offering  non-WWII activities.  We just happen to be racing what we have.. WWII aircraft.

I do agree, however, that resources are what it's all about.  

To address another point mentioned in another post, I'm not suggesting they offer different planes, but rather the same plane (as they do now) with different loadout options. (also as they do now).

Offer P38 only, loadout options might be water injection, modeled after same effect as WEP, but with slightly longer duration and possibly higher engine consiquences. (similar to existing model, but tweaked)  Everyone flies the same plane, but do you select speed or durability?  Something along these lines.

I don't think a major Project scope needs to be introduced here, but I do agree it's not an over night thing.

Hasta,

Disco

[Bosco123]

listen,
we fly airplanes that flew in WW2 because it is a WW2 simulation we did have Air races in WW2 also but diffrent planes they flew GeeBees and things like that we are not the modern age.

The best airplane for races that is nearly close to being in WW2 or that age is the GeeBee, wich i'm sure that HTC will nver make an airplane just ment for airacing it does not make sence at all to me.

[fjaloma]

Originally posted by Krusty

You will always be flying with identical planes. So adding "faster" planes doesn't do anything -- you'd ALL have the faster planes!

Want faster planes? Race with faster in-game planes (tempest, 262, 163, whatever rocks your boat). You don't need new, specialized, highly over-boosted, post-war, unhistorical, aircraft to get that done. [/B]

I hear ya Krusty. I guess it's my communication skills (or lack of) that's creating confusion. You're point Krusty is execellent. If we all fly fast planes then nothing is different. Similar to marking EVERYTHING "Priority". If you do that to everything then NOTHING is actually "Priority".  I agree with you.

But, much like we do now, we hae options in the current league. As pilots we all get the same aircraft. Done.  But!.... we choose how to configure it. In our case, it's fuel load. You'll see guys out there flying test laps  with 50% or 25% or maybe 25% w/ a drop tank. What ever they can think of that might reduce weight and give them an edge on the field.

So my whacked way of improving on aircraft performance is:

Step 1. We all get the same plane.

Step 2.
Offer clipped wings for a given plane we all fly. AH coded the model to slow down any plane by 15 MPH or more if you add a drop tank. So now, use that same model, reverse it and add 15 MPH or more if you select clipped wings for your plane. The trade off....of course you can't turn very well.. so is this the best choice for the course to be run that day?  Not everybody will choose it. Some of those S turns arond water towers are pretty tough now. LOL.

Step 2.
Speed, Offer NOS (for example) based on the current WEP code. Maybe increase it's power output, but the risk is faster overheating and/or engine failure. That's the risk. Not everybody will choose this.

Some people will shoot the works and try everything... maybe a good decision... then again maybe not.  And I think a lot of the existing code/models can be used after a little rework.

Use existing technology don't recreate it:

Somebody at AH has coded that when your aileron and elevator gets shot off, your plane performance is affected in a big way. You can't climb/dive or roll very well..... Make this the kernal of code for "Clipped Wings".

Fuel load out is already coded. More fuel... more weight. Use that as it is.

NOS/Water Injection currently exists as WEP.  Maybe they can bump up the HP or max speed another 20-65 MPH (not sure what the real impact is on a plane), but the code is there currently as WEP already. Also adjust the current risk of overheating.  More decisions to make as a race pilot.

I'm just thinking of how we might be able to adjust a few existing areas to suit the Racing sector of the AH crowd. Luche has an execellent point on resources and limited number of people that would use it, but perhaps a semi brief investigation of the amount of actual rework to be done would illustrate that it's possible.

This might allow AH the ability to promote Racing on a larger scale.

Just some thoughts.

Disco

[ROC]

If AH is willing to put a non WWII event together for a Racing League why not modify some existing flight models to go to the next step?

AH didn't put a non WWII event together, the CM team did  AH supports the CM team as we build, through Volunteer Players, our events.

As the Lead CM team member, I rarely impose on HTC to introduce custom objects and planes that will detract from the efforts of their support staff that is working on Game Specific Upgrades.

The race team uses the planes we have, and our terrain team, again volunteers to create event specific terrains, work on custom maps for tracks and such.

You're just going to have to get used to using the planes that are available.

[fjaloma]

Originally posted by ROC

You're just going to have to get used to using the planes that are available. [/B]

Fair enough. I'm just offering an opinion on what "could be" based on "what we have".

Thanks for listening.

Disco

[Golfer]

So...

If everybody races in the same airplane...

And everybody races the same race...

How's having all of the airplanes flying even 20kts over "stock" configuration change the outcome of a race?

If you ask me faster doesn't mean better.  The best races at Reno IMHO are in the T-6 class.  Similar aircraft as opposed to a hodgepodge of unlimiteds.  Kinda like what we have with AH.  Instead of letting the machine decide the match we're letting pilot skill and flying technique do that for us.

I have to ask though...

How does having everybody flying Dago Red change the outcome of the race as opposed to if everyone was flying in Cripes A'Mighty?

[Bosco123]

the IL-2 race was a bit slow but it was a fun race it crashed very little people and gave many people time to think about what they were doing at that time.

flying a P-51 at 550mph is no fun to do the 262 or the 163 are hard enough.

good point Golfer