Author Topic: Number Designation Question (Read 900 times)

thndregg · « **on:** August 03, 2007, 07:42:50 PM »

One thing you military folks and history buffs could answer...
What is the significance of the number designation in a squad name, or bomber/fighter group? Example: 367th Dynamite Gang, or 31st Fighter Group.

I've never understood the meaning, and would like to know. Thanks.

JB73 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2007, 08:04:27 PM »

I know from my days in the JB's they were the III becuase the real life Jabostaffel wasn't numbered so it was "one"

and the Jabostaffel in Airwarrior just used the name Jabostaffel IIRC. that would be the "II"

since this was the third incarnation JB42 decided on III.

I know alot of other numbered squads use real historical numbers of real squads from WWII and real units.

there is a squad or 2 who had a relative fly in the XXXth fighter / bomber group, and they named their squad here after that too.

thndregg · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2007, 09:29:30 AM »

I appreciate the response, JB73, thanks. I'm more curious about the American designations--even in today's military. More responses appreciated.

Treize69 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2007, 09:35:04 AM »

When they're first formed, they're assigned an arbitrary number by some guy sitting behind a desk.

They are then known by that number for the rest of their existence.

thndregg · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2007, 09:53:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Treize69
When they're first formed, they're assigned an arbitrary number by some guy sitting behind a desk.

They are then known by that number for the rest of their existence.

LOL, is that it?

Thanks Treize

Treize69 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:05:54 AM »

Basically. Theres really no logic to it, its not in order formed or anything. I mean 2 of the squadrons of the 1st Fighter Group were the 71st and 94th for god sakes. The 4th had the 334th, 335th, and 336th.

I think originally the squadrons got their numbers from other units they originated with (several of the original "Pursuit Squadrons" were originally balloon units, observation units, scout units, etc.), but after a while they were just assigned a random number.

It actually gets kind of confusing if you get REALLY into it- the 20th FG was an 8th AAF P-38 and P-51 unit which had the 55th FS (along with the 79th and 77th), while the 55th FG was another P-38/P-51 unit of the 8th, but it had the 38th, 338th and 342rd FSs.

Toad · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:20:17 AM »

Point of order:

Squadrons of the 55th FG

38th Fighter Squadron
338th Fighter Squadron
343rd Fighter Squadron

It became the 55th SRW and the 38th RS and 343rd RS and the 338th CTS are still components of the wing.

Treize69 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:33:14 AM »

I mistyped. I'm tired

Half asleep and waiting for the FedEx guy to show up so I can go to bed.

xbrit · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:35:50 AM »

Kinky Treize.

Bosco123 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:44:05 AM »

now I got a question that will baffle a few people, I am hoping to get an answer on this:

the letters on a british airplane like the spit for example, what do they mean they are always diffrent and could never understand that

Treize69 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:54:36 AM »

You mean the Mk. #s, or the letter that follows it? (Like the B in Mk. VB?)

The Mk. is like the letter following a US or German plane, it designates a difference in version.

The letter following denotes the armament loadout, slight differences between fighter types. An A configuration Spitfire is 8 .303s, the B was 2 20mms and 4 .303s, the C was 4 20mm, and I think the E was 2 20mm and 2 .50s.

On the Hurricane, the A was 8 .303s again, but the B was 12 .303s, the C was 2 20mms, and the D was 2 40mm and 2 .50s.

Greebo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2007, 10:57:13 AM »

If you mean the letters close to the roundel, the two letters close together are for the squadron, i.e QJ was for 92 Squadron. The other letter was for the individual aircraft in that squadron.

The exception to this for was Wing Commanders, who could have their initials as a personal code. So Douglas Bader was DB, Johnnie Johnson JEJ and so on.

The USAAF in north Europe adopted the RAF system as well. In the end there were so many squadrons they started using numbers in the squadron codes.

Saxman · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2007, 11:45:11 AM »

USN/USMC was to a degree a little less arbitrary.

Originally, the squadron designator for Naval (carrier-borne) aircraft indicated their "home" carrier.

IE:

VF-6, VT-6, VS-6 and VB-6 were all based aboard USS Enterprise, CV-6. The squadron designated matched the hull number of the carrier.

However wartime attrition, both in aircraft and ships, and the needs of reassigning squadrons to where they were needed disrupted this (for example, by Guadalcanal VF-6 had been replaced by VF-10 aboard Enterprise).

In the case of the USMC...

Note that USMC squadrons tended to carry three-digit designations. Before the war, the first two digits indicated the air group, while the third indicated the squadron.

So, VMF-232 would have before the war been assigned to MAG-23, and was the second squadron (MAGs generally were comprised of four squadrons).

However like with the USN, combat needs led to squadrons being reassigned, folded into others, and outright disbanded and replaced so that the designation scheme was largely abandoned (generally the Marines still kept the three-digit squadron designations)

Treize69 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2007, 11:47:24 AM »

What he said.

Rino · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2007, 12:19:12 PM »

Every once in a while they try to fix the numbers. When I first arrived
at Moody, the 347th TFW was composed of 68 TFS, 70 TFS and my unit
which was the 339th TFS. After about a year and a half, they renamed
the 339th the 69th so as to make the squads
consecutive.