Author Topic: earliest memory  (Read 1430 times)

Offline SIK1

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earliest memory
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2007, 03:41:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
No, you dont. You think you do, but that is a different thing entirely.

It could be something someone told you, it could be a picture you have seen, it could be a dream you had when you were very young. It is very very easy to plant "false" memories into children, and after a while, it becomes impossible to tell the difference between a real and a fake memory.

The one thing that it cannot be however, is a "real" memory.

I know this is weird, because you really do think you have that memory, and you probably think Im horribly unfair to tell you what you can or cannot remember. Fact remains though.

Personally, I am convinced that I have a memory from when I was around 1 year old. The memory is a split second of me on a beach, and I really can "see" everything, the sand, the sun, the water, my grandmom...etc. And still, it is not a real memory. I have no idea where it comes from...but I do know that I was on that beach when I was 1, and I do know she was there etc. Ive even seen a picture of me on that beach.

Im not saying all this just to piss in you guys bowl of soup. Im just saying that it is impossible. And if you dont want to take my word for it, ask any neuro-physiology-professor. The parts of the brain that handle long-term memory do not develop before the age of 4. No matter how much you think you are the exception to this rule, you arent.



Seeing as how the "experts" still don't really know how the brain works I'm not inclined to believe them when they say something is impossible.

Not too long ago the experts said that heart surgery was impossible, now it is a common occurance.

Ahh yeah, because doctors know so much. You believe what you want I'll believe what I want.
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Offline Denholm

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« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2007, 04:41:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
No, you dont. You think you do, but that is a different thing entirely.

It could be something someone told you, it could be a picture you have seen, it could be a dream you had when you were very young. It is very very easy to plant "false" memories into children, and after a while, it becomes impossible to tell the difference between a real and a fake memory.

The one thing that it cannot be however, is a "real" memory.

I know this is weird, because you really do think you have that memory, and you probably think Im horribly unfair to tell you what you can or cannot remember. Fact remains though.

Personally, I am convinced that I have a memory from when I was around 1 year old. The memory is a split second of me on a beach, and I really can "see" everything, the sand, the sun, the water, my grandma...etc. And still, it is not a real memory. I have no idea where it comes from...but I do know that I was on that beach when I was 1, and I do know she was there etc. Ive even seen a picture of me on that beach.

Im not saying all this just to piss in you guys bowl of soup. Im just saying that it is impossible. And if you dont want to take my word for it, ask any neuro-physiology-professor. The parts of the brain that handle long-term memory do not develop before the age of 4. No matter how much you think you are the exception to this rule, you arent.

Right, then how come do I remember sitting with my grandmother on a hospital bench at two years old when my sister was born? I know I was two because she was born two years after me, plus I have never been to a hospital with any of my grandparents anytime. I also remember playing in the side yard with some neighborhood kids at around 1 1/2 - 2 years of age. I had a plastic golf club and was smacking plastic golf balls. None of the other kids could figure out how it was supposed to work (They were about 4-10 years old) yet I had no issue smacking that ball and making it soar.

I also recall wheeling myself to a friend's house on my tricycle at about 3 years of age, feeling something gooey in my pants (Was off the diapers), and returning home to a father steamed that I had left the house without permission. On top of filled pants I had a red butt after he got done with me.
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Offline Maniac

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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2007, 04:56:38 PM »
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Right, then how come do I remember sitting with my grandmother on a hospital bench at two years old when my sister was born?


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Offline FTDEEP

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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2007, 05:37:42 PM »
i remeber ealier years, when i see pictures of my birthday party 3-4 years old i remember the day barely. but early dramatice moments i remember..

falling out of a rotten tree house breaking my arm on the same farm i got my finger caught in the car door about 5yo.

my first model b-17 i eventually climbed to the roof of my house torched it w/hairspray and threw it off.

jumping off the roof of our garage w/an inflatable pool.holding it like a parachute. only to land on a stump almost breaking both legs.

when we moved into this house there was a empty brass shell from a cannon.i was about 7 and i dragged that thing up to the roof rolling it off and waiting to hear it whistle. it didnt.

getting 2 concussions and seeing my life before my eyes both times .

being born in'57 and growing up in the 60's, g.i.joe was pretty big with me.had the german 'joe and the space 'joe w/capsule.

well could go on and on but theres a few. the good old days..

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2007, 06:49:12 PM »
"The parts of the brain that handle long-term memory do not develop before the age of 4."

I think the average true long-term memory is 3-4 years old, Hortlund, not an arbitrary 4 years old. There is a strange paradox that we do have the capacity very early for long-term memory, but we suffer a childhood "amnesia" of events. Two year-olds have language skills embedded in long-term memory, but they're unlikely to remember events from that age as they grow older.

We also have very creative imaginations in the preteen years, so it is likely that many of the memories people have from under 3 years old were vividly imagined later, based on information they were told later about an event. As adults, they cannot be convinced that it isn't a real memory.

I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, but I can remember the reception area of the hospital when my mother went to deliver my sister. I remember the nurses laughing when I asked my father where they were taking her in the "bicycle." I was three months shy of my 4th birthday.

Well, I'm convinced that I remember it...

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2007, 03:32:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Denholm
Right, then how come do I remember sitting with my grandmother on a hospital bench at two years old when my sister was born?  


To be blunt. You dont.

What you have is a memory of yourself sitting with your grandmother on a hospital bench at two years old when your sister was born. But this memory is not a true memory. It is a memory that has been created at a later stage in your life, probably very early since you feel you have had this memory all the time.

It is very easy to "create" a memory like that. All it would take is for someone to tell you what happened, and then your brain fills in the blanks, and creates a "full picture" of the event, and a year later it is impossible for you or anyone to tell the difference between a "real" memory, and one of those "fill in blank"-memories.

Let me give you an example of how this works. This is from an experiment with a school class of 7yrolds. The class is sitting in their seats, a man comes into the classroom and reads a chapter from a childrens book. Thats it, he walks in, reads the chapter, and walks out. Afterwards the kids are taken one by one into another classroom where they are interviewed.
The interviewer asks them what they thought of the man, and the story, and then the interviewer asks "so, why do you think he tore the pages from the book, threw it to the floor and stormed out"

The childrens reaction to this is first complete puzzlement. They sit there for a short while, but then they start to give answers along the lines of "maybe he was angry", "maybe he thought the story was bad"...etc.

Then a year later, another interviewer returns to the same school, and asks the same children questions about the guy who visited their classroom a year earlier. All the children now has the same vivid memory of the crazy guy who visited their classroom, tore the book into pieces and threw them to the ground. Some of the children has added even more descripting images of how he flipped a chair on his way out, etc.

These memories are now "true" memories for the children. They will always remember how that guy came into the classroom and tore up that book.

Something similar has taken place with you and your memory of your grandmom. It could have started with your grandmom asking you when you were 4 if you remember that time when you sat together. Or it could have been your mom who told you that you sat there with your grandmom. Or you have seen a picture of you and your grandmom. Your brain then filled in the blanks, and created a memory that fits with the situation you know you have been in.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2007, 04:09:35 AM »
Well, i always wondered why i dont have any childhood memories... I was like "did something bad happen too me when i was little?". This explains it tough.
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Offline Vudak

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« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2007, 04:16:56 AM »
Gee, I never realized that on precisely the 1,461st day of every single human being's life, they all of a sudden become capable of remembering events.

I love this O'Club, you learn something new everyday :rolleyes:
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Offline Viking

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« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2007, 04:35:29 AM »
Hortlund's intimate knowledge on the inner workings of the brain notwithstanding I have a memory that contradicts his "4 year old rule". When I was less than a year old I slept in a cradle in the living room of my parents apartment. On a shelf by my cradle the was a wooden statue of a long-necked bird, and at night the streetlight outside the apartment would make the bird cast a very ominous looking shadow on the wall. I was terrified by this shadow every single night for the first year of my life. We moved from that apartment shortly after my first birthday, before I was a able to speak, so I couldn't have told anybody and have them tell me later. There are no pictures of that apartment either and my mother was amazed when I, 14 years later at my confirmation, described the bird-statue and other objects on the mantle in detail.

Offline JB88

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« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2007, 04:51:00 AM »
ya!  well then how do you explain my past life memories of being cleopatra then?!  

:confused:

well?!

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Offline LYNX

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« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2007, 06:20:07 AM »
I was just over 1 years of age.  I was standing in my cot holding the wooden bars like a desperate convict.  It was the middle of the night and my parents were asleep in the massive bed opposite.

Offline Bluedog

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« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2007, 06:52:42 AM »
I was 35, and I distinctly remember buying the baggy, after that I have no ide....no, wait, that was ten minutes ago.
What were we talking about?

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2007, 07:34:34 AM »
Hortlund is correct, though off on the age at which it happens (I think).  I believe the age is 3 or so, and DOES VARY.  I've encountered the power of the mind to fabricate memories in my experiments with hypnosis.  

I've seen people describe vivid detail of an event I had just told them happened 10 minutes previous.

People do imagine themselves doing things during the times they can't remember when they are told by other people.


My earliest memory is when I was 4 or 5, and hanging off the outside of a two story jungle-gym at the daycare center I was going to.  I was screwing around with a wood chip, when I hit my finger pretty hard.  I look down, see bone...  And the next thing I remember is looking up at a bunch of faces in the hospital.

I had a feinting problem when I was younger.  Whenever I saw my own blood, I would just go out.

I don't have the problem anymore, probably because I've seen too much of my blood on the wrong side of the skin.
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Offline moot

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« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2007, 07:47:59 AM »
I do remember thinking, when I was little, how odd it was that I had almost no memories from the year 1987 and back, or 5 years after I was born.. I first had this thought at around 6 or 7 years old.
Hortlund, your rule doesn't seem absolute to me though. The event in my first memory was kept secret from anyone else (my father was training earlier than everyone advised him), and I remember thinking of the memory a few years after it happened, before anyone found out it had happened (doctor's diagnosis of some damage caused by the exercise).
Also, the details I described when I first recalled it to my father was more than someone would've told me about, and it checked out with what my father recalled.. He wouldn't lie about that.
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Offline evenhaim

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« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2007, 07:50:11 AM »
when i was 2 years old i remember visting my great grandfather in the desert. i was running around with my older cousin when i tripped and cracked my head open on a brick i remember the pools of blood but then i passed out so....

another one is of the gulf war towards the end of it when we used to hear air raid sirens alot and had to completly cover all the windows with black blankets as to not let out the light. and i also remember the huge needle of epinehrin that we used to have and the playing police with the gas masks on
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