Most Valuable energy in the F4U-4

[OOZ662]

I've been flying this Corsair exclusively for a while now and got a squaddie hooked on it. However, as I was watching a Ki-84 glide wearily over me trying to decide if he actually wanted a piece or not tonight, I started thinking about which energy state would be better. In your general MA merge situation (say below 13k), is it best to be a bit lower but at top speed, or co-alt or slightly above with only ~200MPH available?

[Saxman]

I hate having ANY plane above me (which is why I cruise at 15k when I have the choice) so my preference is to have altitude. The Hogs can crank it up pretty quickly in a dive, so even only a slight altitude advantage can equate to a large E advantage.

If I have a lot of E to work with and a slow/lazy target only a few hundred to a thousand or so feet above me my first thought would be to zoom up. If he's really lazy or has poor SA and doesn't see me coming I'll very quickly have a shot, but if he evades he's bleeding more E and I can continue my zoom above him and get position.

But given my choice, I'd rather be the guy with altitude.

[OOZ662]

Well, in this situation, I had been flying manually for a while and as a result had slowly gone nose up. I ended up looking at this Ki-84 that was about 1k above me while holding only about 190MPH myself. Something else ended up diving on me and it eventually turned into a 6v1 fight on the deck with my flaps out.

[Stoney74]

Remember the three useless things in aviation:

1--Runway behind you
2--Fuel you didn't take
3--Altitude you don't have

I'll take the thinner air any day over high speed and lower.

[OOZ662]

Funny you should say that as I spent two fights trying to figure out why Il-2s were catching me.
I had a DT strapped on that I had forgotten about. That was another fight though.

I guess what I'm really asking is if you find yourself lower than the enemy, should you retain speed or climb for altitude, thereby ending up slower and less maneuverable? It's obvious that you wouldn't want to try to start a fight in a lower position.

[Knegel]

Hi,

in a F4U and a plane above you, in most cases a higher speed is what you need, simply cause then the enemy need to be faster than you to get you and at high speed(350mph + ) the F4U can use its very good roll ratio to evade an attack and afterward it can use its very good upzoom or max speed to follow the enemy or to disenegage completely. Its very difficult to hit a fast flying wild manouvering plane.
If the enemy decide to stay behind you, the F4U without power but with its flaps will turn and decelerate better than anything else between 150 and 300mph, so the enemy will have problems to stay behind you. If the attacker gets to slow, the F4U can disengage most planes in a shallow dive.

Only vs a FW190, P38L and P51 this can be the wrong tactic, if the enemy is above you, cause they can roll with you at highspeed.

Biggest problem for most is to be able to fly exact while looking rearward.


Just my opinion.

Greetings,

Knegel

[Saxman]

No P-38 will roll with the F4U. The 38L will keep up better than the G and J, but still nowhere NEAR as good as the F4U. Dora and 51 are a closer match, but the Hog at high speeds still has a slight edge.

If you're out of E with a con above you, my advice in the Hog is to go nose-low and don't bleed yourself dry trying to get above him, especially an opponent like the Ki-84 (doubly so against the Japanese kites, as if you can drag them into a high-speed fight the F4U will flat-out WASTE them). At the very least you'll be able to get enough extension to return from a better position.

Alternately I'll try and sucker higher opponents in, especially if they're coming in hot enough that they'll overshoot their dive. I can't tell you how many Typhoons, La-7s and Ponies I've bagged by split-S'ing under them (about 1000yds out works) and immediately following with another split-S to put me right back on their six as they're killing off their E trying to pull out of the dive. Generally within 3 passes I've completed the reversal and have them.

If you're in a position where you're below a con but have a TON of speed (400mph or more) feel free to use the zoom to jump up under him. Most guys see a low Hog and think "easy" so it comes as a nasty surprise when that 12,000lbs of airplane comes rocketing up underneath them. You can generally get a snapshot off before they can react. However this is NOT a situation I intentionally set up if I can avoid it (for one, if you misjudge the height of the zoom you may end up hanging yourself out to dry).

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by OOZ662
I've been flying this Corsair exclusively for a while now and got a squaddie hooked on it. However, as I was watching a Ki-84 glide wearily over me trying to decide if he actually wanted a piece or not tonight, I started thinking about which energy state would be better. In your general MA merge situation (say below 13k), is it best to be a bit lower but at top speed, or co-alt or slightly above with only ~200MPH available?

IMHO you are better off with the speed.  In the MA it's rarely one plane you encounter.  With speed, any defensive moves you make are going to be more effective in avoiding your opponent than say 200  MPH.  If you climb to near coalt w/ the KI and he decides to merge, you would have a harder time avoiding his HO at the slower speed.
 I may be the odd one out though.  You won't find me in altmonkey air, I only go over 8k if I'm go after a bomber group.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by OOZ662
I guess what I'm really asking is if you find yourself lower than the enemy, should you retain speed or climb for altitude, thereby ending up slower and less maneuverable? It's obvious that you wouldn't want to try to start a fight in a lower position.

If I see a bad guy above me, I'll almost always immediately level off and start building speed.  The engagement starts at visual contact, and if you're lower than the other guy, you're already at the disadvantage--no need to compound it by slowing down after a sharp climb.  If the guy is not aggressive, diving in on me immediately, I like to use the .speed command to set up a nice shallow climb around 200-225 IAS and I'll try to add some altitude while he's finding his courage.  But, I always try and maintain speed as best as possible.

My two cents...

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

If ever someone is above you, always dive down, if they fallow you can flip a quickie with your now higher airspeed and get a gun solution, but if he is smart he too will pull back up and try to keep that advantage.

Simply do this over and over, someone will get hits or bolth planes will loose alt fairly quickly.
The point being, is once the plane is down on the deck, you can use your pilot skills to your advantage.

Never have fear for a plane above you, if hes a alt monkey he will be forced to go low "they dont like that" or he will be even higher, and the chances of him pouncing you from 3.5k up without you being able to evade will be even lower.
"You cant hit what knows your coming"


What have you got to loose but alt and the enemys advantage.
I ALWAYS use the term of "drag them down!"

"Throws two cents"

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Saxman
No P-38 will roll with the F4U. The 38L will keep up better than the G and J, but still nowhere NEAR as good as the F4U. Dora and 51 are a closer match, but the Hog at high speeds still has a slight edge.

I'm afraid this is only correct over a portion of the speed range... A P-38L will out-roll any F4U at high speeds.

In real life, the P-38L was the fastest sustained rolling fighter of WWII. At high speed (above 400 mph), its roll rate was about 2 times faster than the P-51D.

But, let's talk in-game roll rates first.

I have tested the F4U-1D and the P-38L (among many others) for roll rate at various speeds.

Here's the comparison.

325 mph TAS @ 10k
F4U-1D: 104.7 degrees/sec
P-38L: 93.3 degrees/sec

350 mph TAS @ 10k
F4U-1D: 103.0 degrees/sec
P-38L: 95.7 degrees/sec

400 mph TAS @ 10k
F4U-1D: 94.0 degrees/sec
P-38L: 98.3 degrees/sec

450 mph TAS @ 10k
F4U-1D: 94.0 degrees/sec
P-38L: 101.1 degrees/sec

So, the P-38L is the faster rolling fighter beginning around 375 mph.

But hold on a minute. The P-38L as modeled in AH2 rolls much slower than WWII test data indicates. The chart below indicates that the P-38J-25 (virtually identical to the P-38L-1 in roll performance) can roll 90 degrees in 0.45 seconds at 400 mph. If we do a simple extrapolation, that adds up to 360 degrees in 1.8 seconds, or 200 degrees/sec.

Indeed, it rolled at better than 100 degrees/sec at 200 mph. The wonder of hydraulic power....

Check out the data yourself.



Report

My regards,

Widewing

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
If ever someone is above you, always dive down, if they fallow you can flip a quickie with your now higher airspeed and get a gun solution, but if he is smart he too will pull back up and try to keep that advantage.

Why give up your altitude when you can force an overshoot at your current altitude?  Seems to me you'd be in a better position to capitalize on his mistake or make your escape if you still have some thinner air underneath you?  Only time I'd recommend that is against a 109, Spit, or Japanese plane, simply because they can't manuever (relatively speaking) at those high dive speeds--and only then as a last resort.