Open carry test

[storch]

Thank you Gunthr.  my daughter's boyfriend was in the car as well so there were three young people in the car not two.  that may be cause to bring out numbers.  the kid is a college football player and is strong lad.

[lazs2]

moray... I actually agree with you on this for the most part.

I have never advocated open carry.   I think that concealed carry is the way to go.   even in the old west they recognized this fact.   Many towns in the west had laws against open carry...  concealed carry was never illegal tho.

For good reasons in my opinion but... good or bad...  the law is what it is.   In many states it is a law that you can carry openly but almost impossible to get a concealed carry permit.  

If that were the case then it would not so much be a matter of how tough you wanted to look but a matter of no other options other than to be unarmed or taking a chance of breaking a bad law.

I know that a gun openly carried is not a common sight in most cases so it does cause a stir but... while him and xmarine were worried about the guy and his holstered gun and (LOL) bomb detenator shaped like a cell phone...


30 guys walked or drove by with every conceivable weapon concealed on their person or car from mac 10's to ma dueces and plastic explosives and no one felt frieghtened at all...

Why not just stop everyone and search em?

lazs

[lazs2]

I guess my point is that open carry is not that great an idea.    I don't want thugs to know who is carrying an who is not... who is a threat to their schemes and who is helpless... still... it is better than nothing.

I think that states should have the right to decide if you carry openly or not but not if you carry or not.  

I think they realized the problems open carry in cities caused way back when and had the right solution.. the nannies have simply screwed it all up with good intentions over the years...

like everything they touch.

lazs

[wrag]

Originally posted by MORAY37
Laz, don't make statements when you don't know someone.  I have no fear of firearms, I own three myself.  I have a concealed weapons permit.  I don't fear myself with a gun, but I don't have the need to display it for the world, either.... I have no need in being Mister Macho on the street.  Besides that, I have a police trained (thats' what my mother does) german shepard that is alot more deadly than a gun, and I can call her back when I pull her trigger.  

No, my point is that, there is something wrong with you if you feel the need to display or brandish a firearm in public.  You think it makes people less likely to mess with you... I think it makes the wrong type MORE likely to mess with you.  It's funny you think someone couldn't take that weapon off you in a heartbeat.

It actually has little to do with macho, and a great deal to do with rights.

If you have the right to do a thing, don't matter what it is, and someone comes along and does their very best to make what you are doing difficult or impossible then where did your right go?

Do you have the right or not?  

Because now it has become a.... you can have your right but only with someones permission?????

They are saying to us, to you.......   Sure you have the right BUT only when and IF we say you have the right....  so how is it any longer a right?

If the above happens and you don't fight for that right then you best consider it gone.................

Admittedly carrying a holstered weapon can create tension.

HOWEVER why can Law Enforcement carry openly and Mr. or Mrs. or Miss, or whatever, average American NOT carry openly?

Are we being told we are untrustworthy?  

Are we being told we are guilty of perhaps thinking of committing a crime?

There is also the training argument, that one needs law enforcement training before one can carry.  Sadly I've seen some in Law Enforcement that should never have been hired.  That are a danger to themselves and the community they supposedly serve.

I could go on................  I will if it seems needed.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by wrag
It actually has little to do with macho, and a great deal to do with rights.

If you have the right to do a thing, don't matter what it is, and someone comes along and does their very best to make what you are doing difficult or impossible then where did your right go?

Do you have the right or not?  

Because now it has become a.... you can have your right but only with someones permission?????

They are saying to us, to you.......   Sure you have the right BUT only when and IF we say you have the right....  so how is it any longer a right?

If the above happens and you don't fight for that right then you best consider it gone.................

Admittedly carrying a holstered weapon can create tension.

HOWEVER why can Law Enforcement carry openly and Mr. or Mrs. or Miss, or whatever, average American NOT carry openly?

Are we being told we are untrustworthy?  

Are we being told we are guilty of perhaps thinking of committing a crime?

There is also the training argument, that one needs law enforcement training before one can carry.  Sadly I've seen some in Law Enforcement that should never have been hired.  That are a danger to themselves and the community they supposedly serve.

I could go on................  I will if it seems needed.

A right is a right, and I will not take any rights away from anyone. Saying that,  I have  the right to carry a baseball bat down the street.  Yet I would feel the officer would be justified in stopping me as I walked into a bar with it.  The item is clearly out of place for the environment and could be about to be used with ill intent.

Generally, I don't believe most people are fit to carry or brandish firearms.  That does include alot of law enforcement.  It most certainly is your right, just as is your right to vote.  I still keep in mind, that half the people I see driving on the roads, shouldn't be there as well.... and extrapolating that, imagining them with guns... well let's just say THAT is what gives me the willies.

[Tango]

I carry a gun with me everywhere I drive and its legal.

Even had an incident when I was in downtown Shreveport late one night leaving the comedy club. Had a couple of guys standing on the street corner while I was stopped at the red light. One of them asks me for a couple of dollars so he can ride the bus home [of course this is 11 at night ]. I tell him I don't have any cash on me. He then starts spouting a bunch of garbage about how I'm prejudice against blacks and turns to his buddy saying "Gimme your piece". I simply reached down and grabbed my .45 and placed it on the dash of my car with my hand still on it.

Needless to say he got REALLY friendly and told me he was just kidding. I don't know if his buddy really had a gun and if he was serious about using it but my legal right to have mine may have neutralized a bad situation.

[FrodeMk3]

Originally posted by Tango
I carry a gun with me everywhere I drive and its legal.

Even had an incident when I was in downtown Shreveport late one night leaving the comedy club. Had a couple of guys standing on the street corner while I was stopped at the red light. One of them asks me for a couple of dollars so he can ride the bus home [of course this is 11 at night ]. I tell him I don't have any cash on me. He then starts spouting a bunch of garbage about how I'm prejudice against blacks and turns to his buddy saying "Gimme your piece". I simply reached down and grabbed my .45 and placed it on the dash of my car with my hand still on it.

Needless to say he got REALLY friendly and told me he was just kidding. I don't know if his buddy really had a gun and if he was serious about using it but my legal right to have mine may have neutralized a bad situation.

Tango, what you did best in this whole scenario was to properly judge intent. You kept the whole thing from getting out of hand because that sweetheartbag thought he might bluff you into giving him money, and whereas you could back up any promise you made to put him in the morgue, he could not commit a crime. Bravo <>

[wrag]

Originally posted by MORAY37
A right is a right, and I will not take any rights away from anyone. Saying that,  I have  the right to carry a baseball bat down the street.  Yet I would feel the officer would be justified in stopping me as I walked into a bar with it.  The item is clearly out of place for the environment and could be about to be used with ill intent.

Generally, I don't believe most people are fit to carry or brandish firearms.  That does include alot of law enforcement.  It most certainly is your right, just as is your right to vote.  I still keep in mind, that half the people I see driving on the roads, shouldn't be there as well.... and extrapolating that, imagining them with guns... well let's just say THAT is what gives me the willies.

I believe I understand you.

I find I differ with you though.

Yes there will always be some that abuse something.  History is proof if nothing else is.

I however disagree with your opinion that MOST people are NOT fit to carry a firearm.  IMHO MOST are law abiding.  Only a few, but there is always a few, would abuse it.

I've known MANY that given the basics concepts, and responsibilities, of being armed could and would successfully carry a weapon, be it open or concealed.

I recall an example, at of all places a renaissance fair, where someone ABUSED that right.

Seems an individual had a jewelery stand and was selling jewelery.  No big deal.  HOWEVER.........

ya ya there is always a however.........

something that was unknown to many of the purchasers was every piece of jewelery had engraved upon it, always in places most don't look very closely at, magical symbols.

These particular magical symbols greatly resembled some symbols I saw in a book on calling daemons.

Apparently I was not the only individual aware of this.  Someone attending the fair came up and asked out right if the symbols were of a satanic nature.  This individual rather young.

A friend of the jewelry seller was standing right next to the table wearing ring mail, a helm, and the additional accouterment's that went with his persona/character?

This included a long sword.

The friend of the jewelry seller told the young questioner, in a very threatening tone of voice, to go away and GRABBED the hilt of that long sword in a VERY threatening manner.

The young person departed rapidly.

That IMHO is or was Assault with a deadly weapon.

That, to me anyway, was one of the FEW times when I would agree that SOME people shouldn't be armed.

I must say the entire episode made me wonder just how far people that carve magical symbols into the hidden places on jewelry will go..................

hmmmm.................. buyer beware?  Does full discloser laws affect jewelry?

[Tango]

IF the questioner had been carrying a gun and simply shown that he was carrying, I doubt the wacko with the sword would have said anything else.

The thing to remember is that even 125 years ago EVERYONE was carrying a gun. There weren't mass shootings and gunfights. There were probably far fewer killings with guns percentage wise back then compared to today.

If everyone carryed a gun there would be fewer violent crimes because the crimanls wouldn't know if the person he was going to hold up was carrying or not.

[TalonX]

Originally posted by storch
Thank you Gunthr.  my daughter's boyfriend was in the car as well so there were three young people in the car not two.  that may be cause to bring out numbers.  the kid is a college football player and is strong lad.

The police over-reacted.   There is a way to control a scene without jamming her face in the dirt.   I feel for the cops - they just lost friends and co-workers......they are hot to capture the punks........

That said, the rest of us shouldn't be giving up our rights.  Cooperate to the fullest, yes...but don't yield your rights.

Franklin said, "anyone who would give up some freedom for some security, deserves neither."

Anything storch can do over this incident will educate the policemen involved.  I see nothing bad.

[lazs2]

moray..  I find myself thinking that if you are a friend of gun owners then we don't need enemies.

Your statement that most people should not be armed but that you should be is arrogant in the extreme.   I find that with such a low opinion of your fellow citizens...  I find that I want to say that it is you that should not be armed.

I would watch a guy in a bar with a baseball bat...  but the bar is full of weapons..  bottles and que sticks and chairs and knives and clubs of all sorts.

Some people are weapon even when naked.  

I just don't think that open carry is a good idea.. not as good a deterent as concealed carry and it can cause problems with showing off.    It was that way in the past and I see no reason why it is different now..

Problem is...  we have pretty much lost our constitutional rights for the most part on the second...  every man who is not insane should be allowed to carry concealed... brandishing would be illegal...  but.. that is not the case...  it is difficult or impossible for most citizens today even to carry legally and concealed.

The option is to be unarmed or illegal... you yourself think that this is not an option since you feel the need to carry... likely, to protect you from the peasants..

lazs