Profesional Pilots

[Rabbit26]

I have a question for any of our professional pilots in our little game here.  After getting my degree  I have decided to get my commercial and cfi license including multi engine.  My question is from what i have seen you need at least 1200 hour to even be considered for a job such as freight dog or entry level regional pilot, so what are some entry level jobs you can seek out to pay the bills flying and building pic time other than just being a cfi.  
A little background on me is I was going to go to law school but hated it and decided i wanted to spend the rest of life doing something i loved.  I have flow a few times, once with a family member who is a pilot and once on a discovery flight to see if i liked the cfi.   I have never had anything else make me as happy as being at those controls.  I had a smile stuck on my face for 2 days.
I am hoping to start training in Spring of 08 training and am considering getting a second degree in aviation science since i am debt free on my first degree.  Any helpful advice on this topic or anything you can think of related to this would be very much appreciated.    
Eventually my goal is  to fly corporate jets way down the line.

[TalonX]

I can only tell you this....Don't get married.

[bj229r]

Davenrino is a pilot for, I believe, Hawaiian air...what a life:aok

[eskimo2]

Are you willing to move temporarily?

I was born and raised in Alaska; I have more friends who became professional pilots than I can count using all my fingers.  At one point three of my roommates were bush pilots.  My roommate John did flight instruction and then light bush flying; he flew hunters and fishermen all over Alaska.  Later he got a regular route hauling cargo to Kodiak Island.  A few years after I left he got a job hauling cargo in DC10s in Angola; he was required to wear a flack jacket on take offs and landings.  Last time I talked to him he was off to DC-10 school.  Other friends had similar stories.  Some friends have washed out; they don’t let you make too many mistakes.  Before I left Alaska we took in a couple of German guys who were looking for flying jobs.  I was very skeptical that they would get anything; I don’t know if they had work visas and wasn’t sure if their German flying credentials would be worth anything in the US.  They both got jobs within a few months though.

[Dago]

You can find flight schools that will have an agreement with a commuter airline, after getting training from the flight school you will get a right seat at the airline.  Gulfstream International in Florida works a deal like that.  There are others.

Gulfstream

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Certains commuters such as Messaba are now hiring 400H co-pilots because of the current shortage.

But usually, between the 500H and 1,200H you do CFI, fly jumpers, or fly toursmsuch as flying the ditch out of Las Vegas, Sedona, Page.

[Rabbit26]

First thanks for all the replies.  I have nothing tying me down so i am going to go where the work is.  I have no problem relocating after training.  Also i have no problem being a cfi to build hours i just want to know all my options.  I hadn't thought about flying skydivers.  I know everybody has to put in there time and i don't expect to come out of school and be flying for an airline.  Hopefully more commercial pilots will continue to chime in as well.  Also one other question i had was how did you guys make the transition from flying prop planes to jet swept wing aircraft.
Thank You

[cav58d]

Well i'm sitting on a hotel room right now and can't sleep, so I'll try and reply the best I can to your post....

First and most importantly....Someone mentioned Gulfstream Academy....Stay the F#CK AWAY FROM GULFSTREAM!  And Jet University, and Mesa's ACPP for that matter.  Your career will thank me later.

Anyways...You have a lot of options.  In regards to jobs, I would definately recommend you get you instructor tickets, and teach anywhere from 500-1000 hours if not more...You will learn more about aviation, than you ever will on any other ticket.

Besides instructing, you can find jobs doing traffic watch and banner tow for example, both being jobs you can get hired into with relatively low time.

A lot of regional airlines are hurting for pilots, and have dropped their mininums to ridiciously low #'s.  I'd say about 500/50 will be enough to get your resume into most places, but theres some that have gone as low as a Com Multi and IFR rating.  Don't let this trick you.  Ask yourself...Would you ever want a family member to be flying on a jet with these low time pilots?  Most likely not, so don't bring yourself down to that.

check your PM's, and if you wanna talk give me a call.

[Gumbeau]

I fly a large corporate jet but I spent years doing lots of other stuff.

If you want to fly in the corporate world then you need to make a career for yourself outside of the airlines.

The airlines are very good at getting people from A to B but the process does not create a person ready for flying outside of airlines. And its hard to break into a corporate job from the airlines. Not impossible but hard.

If you want to compete for the biggest paycheck then your ultimate goal is flying for one of the big overnight package companies.

If you prefer flying set schedules during the day go passenger airline.

If you want lots of variety and more responsibility Part 135 charter or corporate flying is the path you want.

I'll tell you how I got from 0 to Challenger in 18 short years.

I started flying at 16 in Civil Air Patrol. Private license at 17. I was a CFII by 20, instructing my last year at Louisiana Tech in the Aviation program. After college I got a gig instructing. One day I answered the phone and I got a job flying a small twin (pure luck). When I got 1200 hours through a combination of instructing and flying the light twin I got a job flying Barons as PIC and copilot in a bunch of other stuff (mostly King Airs) doing passenger charter. I really wanted to fly freight because it looked like fun. I flew Barons, 402's, Beech 18's (3000 hours in those...dangerous as hell but great fun) King Airs, Lears, and Brasilia's. I eventually worked in management for 3 different small charter companies as Director of Operations. I worked for a large simulator training company for almost 5 years. Thats what lead to my current job.

I have a great job with lots of travel all over the world and I really like flying the Challenger but it isn't nearly as much fun as flying the prop stuff alone in the weather.

If you go direct to a regional flying a jet after just a few hundred hours you will probably have a very nice airline career but you won't be a pilot. You will miss everything that is cool about flying. If I had it all to do over again I would go to Alaska and fly a float plane early in my career.

It is all about what you want in life. Flying freight for a small operator or bush flying is lots of fun, pretty dangerous and pays average. Flying for a regional airline is a good career choice, safe, good training for an airline career and can pay anywhere from crappy to average. There are several ways to land a corporate gig but the time tested method is getting to know the pilots who fly in the flight department you would like to work in. Corporate flight departments hire people mostly on the basis of who they can get along with.

Doesn't sound fair but in the corporate world you live with the crew for extended periods. My particular situation we only have 2 pilots and a flight attendant. We spend 150 days a year on the road together. At a minimum we eat two meals a day together on the road. Getting along is pretty important in those circumstances.

My biggest advice is don't get in a hurry to fly bigger, faster, fancier. Jets are easy and kinda boring but the pay is better. I could have gotten to a large corporate jet  faster but I would have missed out on the best flying I ever did. I don't have stories about cruising in the flight levels but I have some great tales from 5 years in Beech 18's.

But I also have lots of dead friends.

[eskimo2]

If you want flying and adventure, go to Alaska.
When my friend John had a story of flying hunters on the deck through fog.  Visibility was minimal; he probably shouldn’t have been flying.  He skimmed a river on the deck because it was too foggy to get to his destination any other way.  He was so low that he would have to pop up to clear boats; visibility was just a few seconds.  One of the hunters was riding in the front seat.  John said that he was as white as a ghost and was gripping something with all his might.  He never said a word and just stared straight ahead with a look of dread on his face.  

Then there was the story of the live crabs that got loose on the flight back from Kodiak.  Can you say, “Crabs on a plane”, it should be a movie.

Until they lost their business, some friends had a DC-3.  They would land it on gravel beaches to pick up loads of salmon.  I guess that’s why they used to make tires so big.

I swore I would never tell the names of the pilots who experimented with water skiing behind a float plane.  The skier said it was the best water skiing ever; once the plane lifted off the water was as clean as glass.

My parent’s neighbor just died in January.  Ruth Jefford was the first woman to earn a pilot’s license in the Territory of Alaska and was the first licensed female instructor pilot in Alaska.  Her husband, Jack Jefford, was relatively famous as well.

[LePaul]

I've been researching getting my helicopter rating.  I have 225 hours in SEL planes and have had my Private License since 1992.  Helicopters are woefully expensive to get training in.  I'm on office away from the LifeFlight guys and have really enjoyed chatting with them and seeing their brand new chopper up close a few times a week now.  I assumed they only hired former military pilots but I was wrong.  This got my brain thinking about getting my license and who knows, something might open up in the future.

Cons so far...about $20,000 to get my license since the cost per hour is $301.  Ouch.  All this for "maybe"!  Hey, gotta dream tho!

[AquaShrimp]

If your degree is in biology and you are a pilot, you can make alot of money flying for the Fish and Wildlife Dept.  They even have pilots who drop live fish out of their planes (via a bomb bay) into lakes for stocking purposes.  Doesn't hurt the fish, their terminal velocity is 20mph.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by AquaShrimp
If your degree is in biology and you are a pilot, you can make alot of money flying for the Fish and Wildlife Dept.  They even have pilots who drop live fish out of their planes (via a bomb bay) into lakes for stocking purposes.  Doesn't hurt the fish, their terminal velocity is 20mph.

There’s huge money in fish spotting for fishing boats.  Spotters get a cut of the catch.  A good spotter can earn $100,000 in a very good day.  Most folks don’t know what they are looking at, however and can’t tell the difference between a school of whatever and something that’s not even fish.  From what I understand, it’s not something you can learn in school or from books.  Only an experienced spotter can train a spotter.

[Rabbit26]

Just curious was looking at ATP Flight School and was wondering what you guys thought about them.  Anyone had any experience with them?  My cousin got his multi there and was very happy.  He is now flying corporate jets after being a check airman for about 3 years.  Cav i am kinda busy right now but i will call you in the ext couple days.  Thank you for the offer, and thank you to all others who have given advice.
Aqua unfortunately  my degree isn't in biology or i would be all over bombing lakes with fish.  That cracked me up when i read it.  Wonder if the get the laser accurate sites like our ma has, and i wonder if somebody would call me a dive bombing dweeb if i didn't drop them level .

[cav58d]

Rabbit-  I'll go into more detail when we chat, however, I have heard mixed reviews about ATP.  Most of the people I have talked with have had good experiences, however, I find some regret it after they leave ATP and go to the regionals, and fail out of the school house because they realized, "hey...maybe 410 TT isn't really enough time to prepare me to fly jets and go through 121 ground school".

Another problem I have with ATP is that the people teaching you, are also being pushed like hell by management to leave, and get on with a regional airline.  So your getting instruction, but its by a guy or gal who 3 months ago barely had his PPL, and 3 months from  now, wont even be there...But that all depends on if having a personal relationship with your instructor is important to you.

Listen.  I'll PM you my # and we can set up a time to chat.  Theres just too much to potentially talk about, and I don't feel like typing war and peace.