Author Topic: fighters first then bombers  (Read 759 times)

Offline titanic3

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fighters first then bombers
« on: August 13, 2007, 07:21:46 PM »
a lot of new plays in Aces high seem to go after formations of bombers than the fighters that shooting them.

why? i mean, kill the fighters first, you get scores, bombers are alone, kill them off one by one, you get even more scores. if you run out of ammo, call some one on your team to replace your place. this way, the formation will decrease in number and size. soon, the whole mission is dead.
  better than, shoot the bombers, i died, and the bombers bomb your base and your country start to lose.

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline Vudak

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2007, 07:54:46 PM »
I don't even bother shooting bombers.  I just enjoy complaining when they knock down the FHs.  I'm a fairly useless person :)
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Offline mtnman

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 08:54:54 PM »
My general policy is to kill the most threatening opponent first.  If there are no fighters in position to give me greif, I will kill the bombers first.

Bombers are more or less "gimme" kills, so why not?

MtnMan
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Offline fuzeman

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Re: fighters first then bombers
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2007, 10:23:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by titanic3
a lot of new plays in Aces high seem to go after formations of bombers than the fighters that shooting them.

why? i mean, kill the fighters first, you get scores, bombers are alone, kill them off one by one, you get even more scores. if you run out of ammo, call some one on your team to replace your place. this way, the formation will decrease in number and size. soon, the whole mission is dead.
  better than, shoot the bombers, i died, and the bombers bomb your base and your country start to lose.


Nice opinion but it doesn't really give any help or training on how to do anything.
All in all it seems like another useless post.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline Damionte

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 03:06:34 AM »
I'm not exaclt sure what the hell titanic is talking about.

I usually shoot the bombers for a coupel of reasons.

1st The bombers are the threat.
2nd Your window for shooting the bombers is limited.

High fast moving targets can really only reliably be attacked one way, by diving on them from above. Then using a zoom to save energy and set up another run, while at the same time staying too fast for the escort fighters.

Once you've made one or two turns messing with the fighters the bombers will have gotten away.

If the bombers don't have escorts then yeah it's a lot easier to kill them as you can take your time and just park on them. You can though go ahead and tanghle with the figthers if you happen to intercept them far from a target. If you intercept them a zone or two out from thier target then yes jump the escorts and call in help to take out the bombers.

Most of the time though you catch bombers pretty much in the zone of thier target, if not already inside the radar circle of thier target so you have to put them down fast.
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Offline Rich46yo

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 06:55:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mtnman
My general policy is to kill the most threatening opponent first.  If there are no fighters in position to give me greif, I will kill the bombers first.

Bombers are more or less "gimme" kills, so why not?

MtnMan


                         Depends who driving the bomber, and, what kind of bomber it is. 3 B-17s are not a "gimme" most of all if your a lone fighter or even if your two. The KI-67 is a rather nasty beast to go up against as well. The B-24 is a far better opponent because its fragile but you still have to go up against its gun formation.

                        Besides, I fly them as if WW-2 were going on which means I spend the time to get them to 10,000 to 25,000' while sneaking around radars. Even with the AR-234 I sneak around radars. The odds are your not even going to know Im there until Im on top of the target.

                       Ive taken out quite a few targets, around a lot of big airfields, because every fighter pilot of the enemy was chasing his tail in furballs a sector or two away. I dont fly bombers at 2,000' into furballs because they weren't meant to fly that way and didn't do so in the war.

                     Normally this means I wont see more then  1 or 2 bogeys and that doesn't make me sweat. Bring it on!
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Offline The Fugitive

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2007, 07:11:59 AM »
I love newbs !!   :D

Offline Rich46yo

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2007, 09:13:03 AM »
I forget. I have to regress to about 15yo here.:lol
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Offline The Fugitive

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 09:56:41 AM »
I got nothing against ya Rich, but you've been here what a month. Next year if you look back ( cause I'm sure you'll still be here :) ), you'll look at some of the things you've posted and say "OMG !!!! what was I thinking !". You have much to learn grasshopper :D an unlike most of these kids, you will learn it. Enjoy it while it still comes easy. As you progress you'll run into thresolds that will have you stumped for months, but you will perservier ! Hang in there !

At this point you take long routes to get to a target safely. For the most part there isn't much in the way of defense in this game, everyone is out for the attack. Ya get more points for attacking :D A lone group of buffs is easy pickins, and if you start coming up against any of the "better" players you'll find that out quick.

Offline Rich46yo

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 01:51:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by The Fugitive
I got nothing against ya Rich, but you've been here what a month. Next year if you look back ( cause I'm sure you'll still be here :) ), you'll look at some of the things you've posted and say "OMG !!!! what was I thinking !". You have much to learn grasshopper :D an unlike most of these kids, you will learn it. Enjoy it while it still comes easy. As you progress you'll run into thresolds that will have you stumped for months, but you will perservier ! Hang in there !

At this point you take long routes to get to a target safely. For the most part there isn't much in the way of defense in this game, everyone is out for the attack. Ya get more points for attacking :D A lone group of buffs is easy pickins, and if you start coming up against any of the "better" players you'll find that out quick.


                           Ive looked back almost 50 years and never said "OMG, what was I thinking"? Furthermore, if I live to 100yo, You'll never catch me coming into a thread mumbling something stupid, "OK we now know you love newbs", not offering anything to a thread, disrespecting your elders, and just generally being a nuisance. Nothing personal lad its just like the 5'th time some kid has jumped into a thread like that on me.

                        If you have nothing useful to add then say nothing. Learn this at your age and you'll be far ahead of the pack for the rest of your life. OK, I found the Ignore feature. Problem solved.
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Offline mtnman

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 03:40:24 PM »
Whether or not to kill the bombers over the fighters first is decided by several factors.  A big one is what your basic goal is at the moment.  While bombers are not an immediate "personal" threat,  it can be very important to kill them, and to do it quickly.

If you are actively engaged in defending a base killing bombers is a large priority.  To not kill them could mean losing your hangers and eventually a base.  Bombers are also a priority if you are defending your HQ.  Defending a CV is another example where killing bombers would take priority over killing fighters.

Sometimes even if all you're doing is furballing bombers can be a big priority.  You don't want them leveling the FH's and killing the fight.  So you need to protect both sets of hangers in that instance.  Yours AS WELL AS the enemies.  Yours are easy enough, just kill the enemy bombers.  Defending the other teams is more difficult since you can't kill your own teammates.  I usually just won't defend them if they're intent on killing the furball.

Other times, killing the fighters is a bigger priority.  Capping a base is an easy example, as well as participating in a mission and defending your teammates.

If you are just out trying to score some kills and stay alive, you need to neutralize the biggest threat first.  Maybe that means killing it (the threat), maybe that means just forcing the bogie into a weaker position.  I prioritize threat based on height, speed and turning ability.  Killing planes equal or higher than you is the first key.  I also put huge importance on killing fast planes if I'm high, and good-turning planes if I'm low.  Up high a 109, P51, 190, etc is more dangerous than the N1K, A6M or Spit who can't catch you.  If I'm on the deck I put more priority on killing the better turn planes such as the N1K, A6M, and the Spits.  109's, P51's, 190's, etc are not as dangerous (unless they are above you, or have that potential due to their speed).

I don't worry about LA's unless they have some buddies.  I worry about all F4U's unless they are way under me.

Sometimes to kill the biggest threat may mean killing bombers, but if they have an escort you'll need to deal with them first.

To "deal" with the escort in order to kill the bombers often times does not mean killing the fighters, but rather fooling them into a lower position where they can't defend anymore.  If you turn once or twice to deal with the fighters you will be out of position to kill the bombers.  If the escort turns with you they will be out of position to defend.  If you have help things go much better because a few of you can concentrate on the fighters while the rest kill the bombers.

If you can seperate the bombers from the escorts, or at least convince the fighters to get too low you can kill the bombers fairly easily.  The best defence bombers have is the escort.  Remove that and the bombers are pretty helpless unless they are high.

Bombers below 16K are easy kills unless you attack from the back.  Those that are higher are a lot more difficult.  Faster bombers are also harder to kill than slower bombers.  All bombers are fairly easy to kill with the correct tactics, but it pays to look closer at their strengths and weaknesses.

I would say I rank bombers by ease of kill to be- Lancs are easiest, followed in order by B24's, B17's, and B26's.  I don't include Mossies, 110's, B5N's, etc. (Some may include P38's too, hehe).  The KI-67's I seldom see off the deck, and are easy to kill as well.  If they get up they would be tougher I'm sure.  Lancs are just plain helpless.  B24's, 17's and 26's have much better guns, and are faster.  B24's catch fire with just a few hits from the .50's, but B17's are tougher.  B26's are fast and have good guns.  You need to appraise bombers for their strengths and weakness too, just like a fighter if you want to win.

The more dangerous bombers are best attacked low (15K and under).  As the more dangerous bombers get higher, they are much more difficult to kill.  An easy kill (Lanc) can be killed pretty easy up to 22K, but a B26 is rough to kill at anything above about 14K.The faster bombers are much harder to get and keep position on, and coupled with the better guns are awful "salamanderly".  To chase after B26's above the clouds is suicidal unless you have help (somebody else for the bombers to aim at...).  Killing them alone at altitude can be done of course, but takes LOTS of patience.  I've had some great fights against high bombers that took 20 minutes or more.

So I guess the decision on whether to kill bombers before or after the fighters isn't always such a simple question.

What's your in-game name Rich?  I'll have to keep an eye out for you, hehe.

MtnMan
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Offline CAP1

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Re: fighters first then bombers
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 04:15:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by titanic3
a lot of new plays in Aces high seem to go after formations of bombers than the fighters that shooting them.

why? i mean, kill the fighters first, you get scores, bombers are alone, kill them off one by one, you get even more scores. if you run out of ammo, call some one on your team to replace your place. this way, the formation will decrease in number and size. soon, the whole mission is dead.
  better than, shoot the bombers, i died, and the bombers bomb your base and your country start to lose.


you've obviously never seen anyone who's REALLY good at killing bombers, have ya? i have........there's quite a few that can tear my formation apart....and i'm good and quick on the guns too........uumm...lusche comes to mind:D  he friggin doesn't miss....like e has radar guided rounds or something.....and deflector shields on his fighter:rofl

<>

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Offline CAP1

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2007, 04:17:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mtnman
My general policy is to kill the most threatening opponent first.  If there are no fighters in position to give me greif, I will kill the bombers first.

Bombers are more or less "gimme" kills, so why not?

MtnMan


see...i know to keep doing the slashing type attacks, or i fly till i'm a bit ahead of the formation, then turn into em, all the while haulin azzzz////////but they just don't seem easy for me to kill..............actually to me they're a harder kill than an averagely flown spit..........


<>

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Offline The Fugitive

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2007, 04:24:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rich46yo
Ive looked back almost 50 years and never said "OMG, what was I thinking"? Furthermore, if I live to 100yo, You'll never catch me coming into a thread mumbling something stupid, "OK we now know you love newbs", not offering anything to a thread, disrespecting your elders, and just generally being a nuisance. Nothing personal lad its just like the 5'th time some kid has jumped into a thread like that on me.

                        If you have nothing useful to add then say nothing. Learn this at your age and you'll be far ahead of the pack for the rest of your life. OK, I found the Ignore feature. Problem solved.


Well, if you've looked back almost 50 years and never said OMG then my guess is you have never "tried" anything new. In my 50 years of experiences I have found many a mistake, and misjudgment I made, its called "living life". Where I'm man enough to own up to my mistakes, I guess you'll need longer to grow up and own up to yours.

Your reply to titanic was very naive, due to your lack of experience in this game. My comment was meant to be a joke, pointing out how I enjoy comments from new players who believe they "know it all, while they still fly with "Stall limiter" on because they don't know how to turn it off.

While the buff groups do come with a lot of guns which are all "lazer guided",shooting down a formation is not a big problem, this you will learn in time. While I don't expect you to look me up in a year or so to "man up" and tell me I was right, maybe you will take the time now to admit, at least to your self, that even though you might be "46" years of age, to most in the arenas you are a child.  

I wish you well in your learning or this game.

Offline CAP1

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fighters first then bombers
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2007, 04:29:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mtnman
Whether or not to kill the bombers over the fighters first is decided by several factors.  A big one is what your basic goal is at the moment.  While bombers are not an immediate "personal" threat,  it can be very important to kill them, and to do it quickly.

1)since i normally spot the buffs within dar rings..i consider them a threat and will generally try to stop them....even if i only cause them to mes up their drop.

If you are actively engaged in defending a base killing bombers is a large priority.  To not kill them could mean losing your hangers and eventually a base.  Bombers are also a priority if you are defending your HQ.  Defending a CV is another example where killing bombers would take priority over killing fighters.

2)a couple weeks ago, there was a massive furball going on, in which they WERE trying to take our base....and we ALL were chasin em round and tryin to keep em away as they were commin in and doing suicide runs on the ack. on one take off, i went out northwest a bit, to gain a bit of speed and alt before the fight...as i was turning in to head to the fight, i heard explosions...i looked over my shoulder, and there at only 2k was a formation of lancs sneakin in and hitting the town...they had already dropped most of the town, so i inned on em, kilt em and re-upped.....same thing..here they come again....but before i got em they finished off the town....i was heading back to the runway to re-up again when i happened to look back and there was a goon tryin to sneak in.......so again....bombers are a major threat as we very well could've lost that baes if not for a lot of luck there.....

Sometimes even if all you're doing is furballing bombers can be a big priority.  You don't want them leveling the FH's and killing the fight.  So you need to protect both sets of hangers in that instance.  Yours AS WELL AS the enemies.  Yours are easy enough, just kill the enemy bombers.  Defending the other teams is more difficult since you can't kill your own teammates.  I usually just won't defend them if they're intent on killing the furball.

Other times, killing the fighters is a bigger priority.  Capping a base is an easy example, as well as participating in a mission and defending your teammates.

If you are just out trying to score some kills and stay alive, you need to neutralize the biggest threat first.  Maybe that means killing it (the threat), maybe that means just forcing the bogie into a weaker position.  I prioritize threat based on height, speed and turning ability.  Killing planes equal or higher than you is the first key.  I also put huge importance on killing fast planes if I'm high, and good-turning planes if I'm low.  Up high a 109, P51, 190, etc is more dangerous than the N1K, A6M or Spit who can't catch you.  If I'm on the deck I put more priority on killing the better turn planes such as the N1K, A6M, and the Spits.  109's, P51's, 190's, etc are not as dangerous (unless they are above you, or have that potential due to their speed).

I don't worry about LA's unless they have some buddies.  I worry about all F4U's unless they are way under me.

Sometimes to kill the biggest threat may mean killing bombers, but if they have an escort you'll need to deal with them first.

To "deal" with the escort in order to kill the bombers often times does not mean killing the fighters, but rather fooling them into a lower position where they can't defend anymore.  If you turn once or twice to deal with the fighters you will be out of position to kill the bombers.  If the escort turns with you they will be out of position to defend.  If you have help things go much better because a few of you can concentrate on the fighters while the rest kill the bombers.

If you can seperate the bombers from the escorts, or at least convince the fighters to get too low you can kill the bombers fairly easily.  The best defence bombers have is the escort.  Remove that and the bombers are pretty helpless unless they are high.

Bombers below 16K are easy kills unless you attack from the back.  Those that are higher are a lot more difficult.  Faster bombers are also harder to kill than slower bombers.  All bombers are fairly easy to kill with the correct tactics, but it pays to look closer at their strengths and weaknesses.

I would say I rank bombers by ease of kill to be- Lancs are easiest, followed in order by B24's, B17's, and B26's.  I don't include Mossies, 110's, B5N's, etc. (Some may include P38's too, hehe).  The KI-67's I seldom see off the deck, and are easy to kill as well.  If they get up they would be tougher I'm sure.  Lancs are just plain helpless.  B24's, 17's and 26's have much better guns, and are faster.  B24's catch fire with just a few hits from the .50's, but B17's are tougher.  B26's are fast and have good guns.  You need to appraise bombers for their strengths and weakness too, just like a fighter if you want to win.

The more dangerous bombers are best attacked low (15K and under).  As the more dangerous bombers get higher, they are much more difficult to kill.  An easy kill (Lanc) can be killed pretty easy up to 22K, but a B26 is rough to kill at anything above about 14K.The faster bombers are much harder to get and keep position on, and coupled with the better guns are awful "salamanderly".  To chase after B26's above the clouds is suicidal unless you have help (somebody else for the bombers to aim at...).  Killing them alone at altitude can be done of course, but takes LOTS of patience.  I've had some great fights against high bombers that took 20 minutes or more.

So I guess the decision on whether to kill bombers before or after the fighters isn't always such a simple question.

What's your in-game name Rich?  I'll have to keep an eye out for you, hehe.

MtnMan
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