Author Topic: CHPRO USB Rudder Problem... (Read 529 times)

wabbit · « **on:** August 15, 2007, 11:42:58 AM »

After ten years of using a CHPRO 'Gameport' Rudder set, I finally bought a CHPRO USB Rudder set last month. It's been working just fine until yesterday.

Yesterday, I grabbed a P51 with 100lb bombs and rockets, so I could go pound the mush outta someones' VH. When I started down the runway, the aircraft felt like it was dragging a dead semi-truck on a lead chain. I couldn't get off the ground at all and my rudder control was very precise, (ie: I was all over the runway). I went offline and found it happens there also.

I disconnected my USB Rudders and connected my 10 year old CHPRO "Gameport' Rudders and tried again. The P51 responded like normal and I was able to take off just fine. Replaced the CHPRO gameport rudders with the new CHPRO USB Rudders and it went back to 'semi-towing' again.

It's looking like my rudders are spiking but I can't see anything in any tests I can perform.

Has anyone using the CHPRO USB Rudders, experienced a problem like this?

CHPRO won't exchange my rudders. They will only test and fix if they find something wrong. CHPRO Tech Support also says that they get lots of complaints about problems with their USB Rudders and Aces High. Personally, from reading the forum, I find that a little hard to swallow.

Before I send the rudders back for testing/repair, I wana see if anyone else has had this problem or anything like it and explore my options. I'll be testing my USB Rudders on my squadie's system today just to be safe, but any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Wabbit

Krusty · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2007, 12:18:37 PM »

First go into the "map controllers" screen, select the rudder axis, and click the "advanced" checkbox. You'll the the raw input and the scaled input there.

If the raw input is spiking, you might have a problem. If the input is not spiking (or not much) and it's just too sensitive to what you're used to, you may need to scale the rudder axis.

IF it's spiking, you have a couple of option. If it's only a little, you can add a bit of deadband and damping. If it's a lot, you can invest in a self-powered USB hub. These have been shown to reduce spiking in a number of CH and Saitek products. The key being that the computer's USB system doesn't have steady power, or can't supply enough, or for whatever reason, now the USB hub supplies the power and prevents the spikes.

humble · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2007, 01:12:08 PM »

are you using the CH utility? That helps alot...

I have to set and calibrate my pro pedals everytime before I log on. They just dont hold there calibration well. No spiking of anything, they just get out of whack calibration wise.

As Krusty mentioned a powered hub seems to help if the problem is persitant.

wabbit · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2007, 02:19:01 PM »

Thanks Guys,

I'm not plugged into a hub, but directly into the motherboard Krusty. If I understand ya correctly, you're saying that even the motherboard doesn't do a
good job of providing power for USB Devices? Let me know and I'll start looking for a good self-powered USB Hub. (any suggestions?)

No Humble, I'm not using the panel. Actually, (big dummy that I am), I wasn't aware there was one available. I'll check my install disk and the CH site and get it. I have noticed that the rudders seem to need re-cal everytime I log on. I don't use Ch's joystick/throttle. I use The TMS Cougar, but have used CH rudders for ten years or so.

This gives me something to go on. I hated the idea of just sending the rudders back without knowing for certain, especially after talking with CH. Thanks again.

Wabbit
Morals Officer
Whitey's Buccaneers
5th Army Air Corps

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2007, 02:59:28 PM »

That is what I was saying, yes. Whether that's your case or not, I can't say without testing it on a self-powered hub.

Can't predict what will and will not have USB power problems. Could be a poor capacitor on your motherboard, or could be a failing connection in that USB plug.

If you have a front panel or external plugs (example: I have some on my LCD monitor, where I plug my mouse) try those instead, just to see if any of your ports are more stable than what you're using now.

airspro · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2007, 03:17:32 PM »

I have the full CH set and so far with two pc's I have not had to have extra power . That's a good thing and I think I got lucky .

Saying that I almost never recal them either . Guess last time was 2 months ago .

I write this so that you would know if they are working right , with enough power etc , they shouldn't have to be recal every flight . At least IMO or my exp. with CH products .

It really sounds like you have one or both brakes draging . I know I can't cal. in windows without messing up my brakes in AH .

gl
spro

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2007, 03:52:18 PM »

Also sounds like dragging brakes to me. Try launching with the brakes unmapped once. You may have a bad/dirty brake pot(s). Toe-brake pots are easily accesible by removing the plates your feet rest on.

BTW, I do use a powered hub, don't use Control Panel and rarely have to recalibrate my controls.

Furious · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2007, 04:23:31 PM »

If you are willing to void the warranty, open 'em up.

The wires inside are very thin and not placed very well. They rub and break easily, but it is an easy solder. This has happened to mine twice.

wabbit · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2007, 11:04:36 PM »

I've already tried different usb ports on my system, but no luck.

The idea of the dragging brakes sure seems like it might just be what's happening. That would explain everything. Tomorrow I'll try un-mapping the brakes and see what happens first, before I try some of the other ideas.

Sinse the rudders are only 30 days old, I'll wait until I don't have any other choice before I void the warranty, even though going inside wouldn't be a problem for me. I might even be able to talk CH into sending me replacement pots and put'em in myself.

Thanks Guys, I'll let ya know just what I find out.

Wabbit
Morals Officer
Whitey's Buccaneers
5th Army Air Corps

Easyscor · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2007, 12:13:51 PM »

Every time I shut down my box and travel with it, when I hook everything back up all the settings have to be reloaded. Don't ask me why.

Recalibrate your rudder in Windows.
Recalibrate all your controllers in-game and check to make sure everything is mapped correctly.

When it's all working, make copies of the controller files in your settings folder. You'll be needing these whenever you turn off the power for extended times or switch the USB plugs around.

GL

Optiker · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2007, 12:27:56 PM »

Wabbit
I had similar problems until I finally got a Belkin powered USB hub - I needed it anyhow as every periphal I own is USB!

One other thing to try is putting in an appreciable amount of deadband on your brakes - when I fly, I rest my feet on the pedals and never noticed I was rocking the brakes. It's really easy to get into a habit of inputting brake while applying rudder (similar to inputting inadvertent yaw with a
twisty-stick).

Regards,
Optiker

wabbit · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2007, 03:44:09 PM »

This morning I disconnected the Gameport rudders and plugged in the USB Rudders.
Sure enough, had the problem again. I set the brakes on the rudder to none, and tried again. Lo & behold, everyworked fine.

Took a hard look at the USB ports I was using for the Cougar and CHPRO and discovered, that I had plugged them into the USB 1.0 ports. Although I had moved the rudders to the other USB ports, (V2.0), I hadn't moved the cougar. I moved both the Cougar and CHPRO to the USB 2.0 ports re-enabled the brakes on the CHPRO Rudders and everthing seems to working again. This makes me think it is some type of USB power problem,(possibly a weak cap on the V1.0 ports, like you suggested Krusty).

I'll test it out real good tonight when the squad flies. If things keep working, I won't worry too much, but at-the-same-time, I'll be keeping my eye out for a sale on a self-powered USB hub. I like Belkin, they put out some good stuff.

Opitker, how right you are! While testing this morning I noticed that I was
pushing down on the brakes when applying rudders. It wasn't much, but it's
something I'm going to have to start paying attention to and another bad habit,
(What can I say, I have a few...), I'm gonna have to break.

I may even have to cut back on the beer intake while flying, but first I'll try and control the urge to push down while ruddering...

I really really really like my beer...

Thanks again to everyone for the help!
If I ever git to a convention, I owe ya's all a beer,
Just one! I know how you guys can inhale the stuff...

Wabbit
Morals & Manners Officer
Whitey's Buccaneers
5th Army Air Corps

SIK1 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2007, 04:59:29 PM »

One thing that I do to keep from inadvertant rudder,or brake inputs is I don't put my whole foot on the rudder pedals. I just put my foot on the lower part of the pedals. On my CH pedals I really only have the ball of my foot on the ridge that is for your heel to fit into.

Krusty · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2007, 12:56:51 PM »

Also, on the toe brakes you can deadband them 50%. They're full-on anyways, right? You're only going to use them when mashing your toes down, right?

Adding a sh**load of deadband keeps them from triggering when adjusting rudder on takeoffs, etc.

DAVENRINO · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:15:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Also, on the toe brakes you can deadband them 50%. They're full-on anyways, right? You're only going to use them when mashing your toes down, right?

Adding a sh**load of deadband keeps them from triggering when adjusting rudder on takeoffs, etc.

I do the same.