The Dixie Chicks should be President

[Hap]

Originally posted by lazs2
It is not a complex thing but seems very difficult for some to grasp...  if we let them be... they have the whole world to play in.

True!

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Tango
So instead of fighting them in thier backyard you would rather pull back

I would have rather fought them in a way to where we always have the advantage of surprise and where our image is not spoiled by corruption and lies.  I know we're in a fix over there and it is going to be tough to make it out of there without egg on our face and with somehow leaving it a better place.  That is why I was soo infuriated that the moron was so gung ho to get us in there.  We should have captured  Bin Laden first, that would have sent a strong message to the terrorists.   We should have secured our borders, so that we show them it's not going to be as easy as last time.  Then we should have started a quest to track these MF'ers down and kill them like the rats they are!!!!!  Lying to the world and bumbling into a country with no plan to secure it, is not the way to go about fighting the terrorists, it just added fuel to the fire.  But, if all of the sudden a bomb explodes in a room in Damascus and 10 cell leaders are killed, noone knows who it is or who is behind it, but of course they will "know"!  The next week a bomb goes off in the HQ of a cell in Indonesia, noone knows who set it, but they "know"!!   All of the sudden a bomb kills 8 Al Queda leaders in manilla, noone knows who set it, but they "know"!  A bomb goes off in the Kalasha valley and kills 25 Al queda militants, noone knows who set it, but they "know"!  This is how you fight terrorism, like fire with fire.  Intelligence and planning.  Ruthless resolve with expert planning.  This strategy coupled with extremely tight border security is the only way to fight this war against terrorism!

[lazs2]

skyrock... what you want to do is surrender and then... to make up for that you want to.... to what?   "hunt em down"?

Oh yeah.. that would work.    When the 9/11 happened and the discussion started I was the first to say that we should have simply made up a picture book...

"The big Book of Terrorists" and.. hunted em down and crossed their picture out as they "disapeared".

I now realize that this is beyond folly in a country/media that thinks offering a hot dog to a prisoner is torture beyond all conception.

The new york times and cnn and all the democrats would come unglued if they ever found out that we were even looking for terrorists and....

How would we do it?  send in 5 guys to iran to knock on doors?   sheesh... we couldn't even get it right in mogandishu where the population was starved and stupid and no one even noticed if you killed a few thousand...

so what do we do?  send a smart bomb?   but wait... no matter what.. the new york times will be showing dead babies and saying that what we hit was the biggest orphanage on the planet...

nope... we have to go there and have a real presence I am afraid... we simply have no choice.

lazs

[Tango]

Originally posted by SkyRock
I would have rather fought them in a way to where we always have the advantage of surprise and where our image is not spoiled by corruption and lies.  I know we're in a fix over there and it is going to be tough to make it out of there without egg on our face and with somehow leaving it a better place.  That is why I was soo infuriated that the moron was so gung ho to get us in there.  We should have captured  Bin Laden first, that would have sent a strong message to the terrorists.   We should have secured our borders, so that we show them it's not going to be as easy as last time.  Then we should have started a quest to track these MF'ers down and kill them like the rats they are!!!!!  Lying to the world and bumbling into a country with no plan to secure it, is not the way to go about fighting the terrorists, it just added fuel to the fire.  But, if all of the sudden a bomb explodes in a room in Damascus and 10 cell leaders are killed, noone knows who it is or who is behind it, but of course they will "know"!  The next week a bomb goes off in the HQ of a cell in Indonesia, noone knows who set it, but they "know"!!   All of the sudden a bomb kills 8 Al Queda leaders in manilla, noone knows who set it, but they "know"!  A bomb goes off in the Kalasha valley and kills 25 Al queda militants, noone knows who set it, but they "know"!  This is how you fight terrorism, like fire with fire.  Intelligence and planning.  Ruthless resolve with expert planning.  This strategy coupled with extremely tight border security is the only way to fight this war against terrorism!

How would you find out where they are if we weren't over there? If anything we have been getting ALOT of info, from the very people your wanting us to assassinate, who are being captured and interrogated over there now. We are also seeing the Iraqi people rising up agaisnt those same people and working with our troops.

It takes time to stop in insurgancy. Turning tail and running isn't a way of doing it and our troops would be the first to tell you that.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by lazs2
skyrock... what you want to do is surrender and then... to make up for that you want to.... to what?   "hunt em down"?

Oh yeah.. that would work.    When the 9/11 happened and the discussion started I was the first to say that we should have simply made up a picture book...

"The big Book of Terrorists" and.. hunted em down and crossed their picture out as they "disapeared".

I now realize that this is beyond folly in a country/media that thinks offering a hot dog to a prisoner is torture beyond all conception.

The new york times and cnn and all the democrats would come unglued if they ever found out that we were even looking for terrorists and....

How would we do it?  send in 5 guys to iran to knock on doors?   sheesh... we couldn't even get it right in mogandishu where the population was starved and stupid and no one even noticed if you killed a few thousand...

so what do we do?  send a smart bomb?   but wait... no matter what.. the new york times will be showing dead babies and saying that what we hit was the biggest orphanage on the planet...

nope... we have to go there and have a real presence I am afraid... we simply have no choice.

lazs

Well, there are many ways to infiltrate the enemy that are tried and true!   I never said anything like turn tail and run, I did say that going into IRAQ under false pretense has hurt us more than it has helped us.  It is always better to not only decimate the enemy in the battlefield, but to decimate him in mind and spirit as well.  To turn his own body against him.  To beat him totally and completely.  This is not a battle of physical prowess, but a battle social and intellectual prowess.  I might add, that you and a few others have some kind of idea that we can actually fight this in a conventional way, not only is that impossible, but it is not the way to win.  This is a long and hard battle that starts at home(sealing borders).  Maybe you can understand that, maybe you can not!:aok

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Tango
How would you find out where they are if we weren't over there?

"They" weren't in IRAQ.  

[Tango]

but they are now and the Iraqis are fighting them as well.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Tango
but they are now and the Iraqis are fighting them as well.

So we have created an unstabel state, where many nations now have "insurgents/terrorists" involved and where before there were little to none!  ?????

[Tango]

Originally posted by SkyRock
So we have created an unstabel state, where many nations now have "insurgents/terrorists" involved and where before there were little to none!  ?????

So your saying everything was better with Saddam in power shooting at our air patrols in the no-fly zone while sitting on his chemical and bio wepaons?

[DEMONSLAYER]

as much as i hate saying this. id rather our trained troops be fighting in Iraq and having the war over there, then to not do anything about it and have more of american buildings being bombed with Innocent people in them. if we pull put now i have a feeling we are going to have a super terrorist attack on us. our troops joined the army and airforce and NAVY for one reason, that reason was to fight for our country. that's what they are doing. i really don't want another 3000 civilians dyeing from a terrorist attack. and i think are troops over there have stoped many terrrist attacks from happening in the US. the insergents are helpin us win by blowing them selves up in there country. if they want to lose the war by that then so be it. cause pretty soon they wont have any 1 to blow them selves up. i think we should stay pulling out is too dangerous at the moment.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Tango
So your saying everything was better with Saddam in power shooting at our air patrols in the no-fly zone while sitting on his chemical and bio wepaons?

I will ask you three questions:

On a list of most dangerous states at the moment of our invasion, where did IRAQ place?  

Do you think that IRAQ was the only country that wanted us dead that had chem and bio weapons?(that is hypothetically speaking that Sadam wanted us dead)

Do you believe that IRAQ was the center of anti-american terrorism in the middle east?

By the way, I like the dicussion fellas!

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by DEMONSLAYER
the insergents are helpin us win by blowing them selves up in there country. if they want to lose the war by that then so be it. cause pretty soon they wont have any 1 to blow them selves up.

Do you know how many islamic fundamentalists are estimated to be in the world?  

[john9001]

Originally posted by SkyRock

Do you know how many islamic fundamentalists are estimated to be in the world?  

do you?

[Holden McGroin]

There are about 1 billion muslims.

so fundamentalist muslims are = or < 1E9

[Tango]

Originally posted by SkyRock
I will ask you three questions:

On a list of most dangerous states at the moment of our invasion, where did IRAQ place?  

Do you think that IRAQ was the only country that wanted us dead that had chem and bio weapons?(that is hypothetically speaking that Sadam wanted us dead)

Do you believe that IRAQ was the center of anti-american terrorism in the middle east?

By the way, I like the dicussion fellas!

1 - So attacking our planes that were patroling the no-fly zone is not an act of war? That in itself is reason enough to end the cease fire. WMDs or not.

2 - Saddam wanted nothing more than more power and oil. He proved that by invading Kuwait. He was a threat to our Allies over there. Kuwaitis celebrating after we invaded and defeated his army proved that. Not to mention his own people. I have a nephew who spent a tour in Northern Iraq with the Kurds and he said they are extremely gratful to us.

3 - Yes, he was supporting terrorism. He was giving money to Palestinian suicide bombers families who were killing innocent people in Israel. Israel is one of our closest allies in the ME. Reports dating back to the Clinton administration even were saying that he was and that he was looking for and striving for nukes. Why the anti-war activists seem to forget this to put the blame on Bush saying HE lied and was simply looking for an excuse to go into Iraq baffles me. The attacks on our air patrols would have been enough excuse to end the cease fire if that was true. With the info he had [which goes back several years BEFORE he was even in office] showed that there was evidence. There was even an Iraqi general who defected that stated this as well.