The Dixie Chicks should be President

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by BBBB
Have you been to Afghanistan or Iraq? If not then you need to shut your pie hole. Our hands are not tied behind our backs, we were not sent into battle simply to die. I will admit, there have been some mistakes made in our mission planning, but a good number of the people over in Iraq and Afghanistan are glad we are there.

 The people over there have had to live though oppression, torture and fear. Until you have seen these horrors with your own two eyes and have had boots on the ground I would suggest you stop talking over your pay grade.  

 The fact you used a celebrity as your ammo tells me you are a beer or two short of a six pack. Celebrities live in a box. They are artist. They see the world differently. For most of them everything is neat and clean. All the worlds questions have answers. All the worlds illnesses have cures. Those of us who reside in the real world know not every question has an answer and not everyone can be saved. It is the way of life.

 So please get off the ride and join us in the real world. I am not saying you can't or shouldn't be anti-war. Just have some clue about what it is you are talking about before you go spouting off nonsense and making yourself look like a *******.  For the record.


-CW2 J. Wells
 D-1/7 Aircav
 US Army  
 AKA: Spot

I'm not leadpig, but I will step in for my own opinion, sir.
Sir, your service is your own, as mine was.  I commend you for it.  I do not, however, commend you for your stature on the issues.  You have every right to feel however you want about Iraq.  I personally have not been there and do not speak from personal experience.  I speak from the position of listening to a very close friend who narrowly escaped coming back in a flag draped box, for the price of his legs.  

You were NOT sent to Iraq to help people under an oppressive government.  There are literally a hundred governments on the planet that could be termed oppressive.  YOU, sir, were sent to war on the ideology that Saddam Hussein was developing an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction that represented a possible threat to the mainland. You, sir, helped execute that war with precision and with an incredible degree of success, in a short ground campaign.  We know this pretense was FALSE from the beginning now, that WE WERE LIED TO.  YOU, sir, deserve to come home now.  YOU are a member of an army, sir, NOT A DAMN NATION BUILDING consortium.  If that were the case, you'd have been deployed to Sudan, Darfur, Oman and many other sub saharan african nations that were a hell of alot more oppressed than that that was IRAQ.

Sir, you have been mislead.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.  The men that did, WE LET THEM GO.  Now we are rattling the saber with Iran.... a nation we've been  meddling with since 1953 when the CIA subjugated the government there.  It's all BS, and you aren't making anything any better by being there.

[Tango]

Originally posted by SkyRock
lie some more, you brought up dems of the past when we were discussing IRAQ today.  Now, if you want to anklehump me in the O'club, go ahead Im used to it!:aok

THIS is the last post I made when you stopped debating and started making insults.

Originally posted by Tango
1 - So attacking our planes that were patroling the no-fly zone is not an act of war? That in itself is reason enough to end the cease fire. WMDs or not.

2 - Saddam wanted nothing more than more power and oil. He proved that by invading Kuwait. He was a threat to our Allies over there. Kuwaitis celebrating after we invaded and defeated his army proved that. Not to mention his own people. I have a nephew who spent a tour in Northern Iraq with the Kurds and he said they are extremely gratful to us.

3 - Yes, he was supporting terrorism. He was giving money to Palestinian suicide bombers families who were killing innocent people in Israel. Israel is one of our closest allies in the ME. Reports dating back to the Clinton administration even were saying that he was and that he was looking for and striving for nukes. Why the anti-war activists seem to forget this to put the blame on Bush saying HE lied and was simply looking for an excuse to go into Iraq baffles me. The attacks on our air patrols would have been enough excuse to end the cease fire if that was true. With the info he had [which goes back several years BEFORE he was even in office] showed that there was evidence. There was even an Iraqi general who defected that stated this as well.

Where in there did I say anything about Democrats of the past. The only thing I see that you may take offense to is "anti-war activists". So continue with the insults if you want but atleast get the facts straight.

At least LP carries on the debate and doesn't make insults until he is insulted.

[john9001]

Originally posted by LEADPIG
Speak and you shall get spoken to the way you spoke in the beginning. If you and John were making jokes however i honestly apologize. It is hard to tell implied statements over the internet without facial gestures, body postures and speach inflections. So if you were kidding i am sorry Sir. S!

i was not making jokes, SIR.

[BBBB]

I love how some of you here think you know my mission and what I am supposed to be doing over in the box. This war in Iraq is a two fold operation. The first part of the mission was to remove Saddam from power, to arrest him and his officials who have committed atrocities against his own people. The second part is underway, support the Iraq people, until they can get a solid military and govt in place.

 I am not going to argue schematics with you, over why we went to war in the first place. The bottom line is this. Saddam was an evil dictator. He had ties with terrorist groups (This has been well documented). With our war on terror going on Saddam was a threat to the mission. He has said in the past he would harbor terrorist and we have said that any country that harbors terrorist is our enemy.

 We got Saddam. Mission complete.  However, if we just up and left the country as it is now..our kids would have to go over there yet again to put out another fire. The situation in Iraq is like a rotting tooth, if you stand by and do nothing it will get worse and worse. This is a situation that was going to have to be dealt with at some point. I would rather deal with it now, so my son doesn't have to later.

 I have no problem with people being for or against the war. I have been there, twice. I have seen with my own eyeballs, the good that has come out of our presence over there. There for, I choose to support the war. Not as a soldier, but as an American.

 You can say you are against the war, that the war is wrong, that it is unjust, yadda, yadda, yadda. Better men and women than you, have fallen to protect that right.  However, I will not stand by and allow someone to stand on a soap box and share a message, when that message is nothing more than nonsensical rhetoric and banter. You screaming the sky is falling and and saying we are doing things all wrong is pointless if you offer no viable solution to make the situation better.

 People like you think the world just fits together like a puzzle. It does not. Things are not always black and white, night and day, left and right. Sometimes lines get blurred. Sometimes blunders happen. Sometimes amazing things happen and sometimes nothing happens. It is the way life works.

 You keep claiming you talked to these troops and they told you this and that. So are your saying prior to your talking to them you were objective and fair about the war in Iraq? That you sat on the fence about the Iraq war? My bet is you did not. My bet is you were against the war from the start. So when a soldier shares with you that he was scared, that they were worried about how things were going, you took that and ran with it as blunder.

 Well here is a news flash. Everyone in the box is scared. I was scared. Everyone in a war zone is scared, because in a war zone anything you do can get you killed..including doing nothing.  You are always worried about making the right choices. You are always worried about the upper brass making a mistake, the same way most hard working citizens worry about their boss or manager screwing up something they are working on. The difference here is, when our bosses screw up people get hurt or killed. That is what you worry about.

Be objective, be fair, be skeptical, but above all be supportive.

-Spot

[C(Sea)Bass]

Originally posted by BBBB
I love how some of you here think you know my mission and what I am supposed to be doing over in the box. This war in Iraq is a two fold operation. The first part of the mission was to remove Saddam from power, to arrest him and his officials who have committed atrocities against his own people. The second part is underway, support the Iraq people, until they can get a solid military and govt in place.

 I am not going to argue schematics with you, over why we went to war in the first place. The bottom line is this. Saddam was an evil dictator. He had ties with terrorist groups (This has been well documented). With our war on terror going on Saddam was a threat to the mission. He has said in the past he would harbor terrorist and we have said that any country that harbors terrorist is our enemy.

 We got Saddam. Mission complete.  However, if we just up and left the country as it is now..our kids would have to go over there yet again to put out another fire. The situation in Iraq is like a rotting tooth, if you stand by and do nothing it will get worse and worse. This is a situation that was going to have to be dealt with at some point. I would rather deal with it now, so my son doesn't have to later.

 I have no problem with people being for or against the war. I have been there, twice. I have seen with my own eyeballs, the good that has come out of our presence over there. There for, I choose to support the war. Not as a soldier, but as an American.

 You can say you are against the war, that the war is wrong, that it is unjust, yadda, yadda, yadda. Better men and women than you, have fallen to protect that right.  However, I will not stand by and allow someone to stand on a soap box and share a message, when that message is nothing more than nonsensical rhetoric and banter. You screaming the sky is falling and and saying we are doing things all wrong is pointless if you offer no viable solution to make the situation better.

 People like you think the world just fits together like a puzzle. It does not. Things are not always black and white, night and day, left and right. Sometimes lines get blurred. Sometimes blunders happen. Sometimes amazing things happen and sometimes nothing happens. It is the way life works.

 You keep claiming you talked to these troops and they told you this and that. So are your saying prior to your talking to them you were objective and fair about the war in Iraq? That you sat on the fence about the Iraq war? My bet is you did not. My bet is you were against the war from the start. So when a soldier shares with you that he was scared, that they were worried about how things were going, you took that and ran with it as blunder.

 Well here is a news flash. Everyone in the box is scared. I was scared. Everyone in a war zone is scared, because in a war zone anything you do can get you killed..including doing nothing.  You are always worried about making the right choices. You are always worried about the upper brass making a mistake, the same way most hard working citizens worry about their boss or manager screwing up something they are working on. The difference here is, when our bosses screw up people get hurt or killed. That is what you worry about.

Be objective, be fair, be skeptical, but above all be supportive.

-Spot

that could be one of the only 5 posts on this thread that show some intelligence on the part of the poster. Good work.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by LEADPIG
It is hard to tell implied statements over the internet without facial gestures, body postures and speach inflections.

That's the point of these little thingys:    

and when I corrected your grammar, I used the winky thingy.

[C(Sea)Bass]

your name would be funnier if it were "Pat MacRoin"

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by john9001
leadpig and skyrock, spokesmen for al qaeda.

Before we invaded, al qaeda non existent in IRAQ!  Now, instability in the region and Iran setting up to takeover.  

 I would rather be seen as a spokesman for securing our borders and hunting terrorists through different tactics.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by BBBB
I love how some of you here think you know my mission and what I am supposed to be doing over in the box. This war in Iraq is a two fold operation. The first part of the mission was to remove Saddam from power, to arrest him and his officials who have committed atrocities against his own people. The second part is underway, support the Iraq people, until they can get a solid military and govt in place.

 I am not going to argue schematics with you, over why we went to war in the first place. The bottom line is this. Saddam was an evil dictator. He had ties with terrorist groups (This has been well documented). With our war on terror going on Saddam was a threat to the mission. He has said in the past he would harbor terrorist and we have said that any country that harbors terrorist is our enemy.

 We got Saddam. Mission complete.  However, if we just up and left the country as it is now..our kids would have to go over there yet again to put out another fire. The situation in Iraq is like a rotting tooth, if you stand by and do nothing it will get worse and worse. This is a situation that was going to have to be dealt with at some point. I would rather deal with it now, so my son doesn't have to later.

 I have no problem with people being for or against the war. I have been there, twice. I have seen with my own eyeballs, the good that has come out of our presence over there. There for, I choose to support the war. Not as a soldier, but as an American.

 You can say you are against the war, that the war is wrong, that it is unjust, yadda, yadda, yadda. Better men and women than you, have fallen to protect that right.  However, I will not stand by and allow someone to stand on a soap box and share a message, when that message is nothing more than nonsensical rhetoric and banter. You screaming the sky is falling and and saying we are doing things all wrong is pointless if you offer no viable solution to make the situation better.

 People like you think the world just fits together like a puzzle. It does not. Things are not always black and white, night and day, left and right. Sometimes lines get blurred. Sometimes blunders happen. Sometimes amazing things happen and sometimes nothing happens. It is the way life works.

 You keep claiming you talked to these troops and they told you this and that. So are your saying prior to your talking to them you were objective and fair about the war in Iraq? That you sat on the fence about the Iraq war? My bet is you did not. My bet is you were against the war from the start. So when a soldier shares with you that he was scared, that they were worried about how things were going, you took that and ran with it as blunder.

 Well here is a news flash. Everyone in the box is scared. I was scared. Everyone in a war zone is scared, because in a war zone anything you do can get you killed..including doing nothing.  You are always worried about making the right choices. You are always worried about the upper brass making a mistake, the same way most hard working citizens worry about their boss or manager screwing up something they are working on. The difference here is, when our bosses screw up people get hurt or killed. That is what you worry about.

Be objective, be fair, be skeptical, but above all be supportive.

-Spot

You said a few things that made sense, but you said many things that are insulting to me as a citizen.  I am a public servant.  I am educated man and although I have not served militarily, my family has spilled more than it share of blood for this country.  
The reason why you have not heard a solution, is because there is none.  To destabilize IRAQ, such as this war has done, is a great blunder to the world.  Now there is no solution accept escalation of conventional warfare.  Most likely with IRAN and possibly with several others at the same time.  Sadam was a bad guy, no doubt about it, but they are abundant on this planet, and we do not have the manpower or the money to go around the world and remove them and rebuild their countries.  It is sad that we as a nation were put into this situation by our leaders and it will be families like yours and mine that will have to pay for the arrogance of this move with our blood and money.


 
 I would like to have seen the everyday living improve in IRAQ.  You have been there, do they have plumbing?  Do they have electricity?  Do they have security on their streets?  These are the things that are important to people.  We need to help them get these things so that they will have something that will be worth defending.  Restoring these basic fundamental modern needs should be prority one right now.

I have no doubt that our intentions are good, but we still have to deal with what this war is costing us, and what it will cost us in the future.  It was not a well planned idea and you and I and our children will be paying for it for a long time.  


I must say that I am proud of what our soldiers, and yourself have accomplished in IRAQ.  It is valliant, courageous, and ultimately good.  I understand fully that the american soldiers who are serving over there are the most compassionate soldiers in the world.  They are the bravest and most sacrificing in the world.  Their heart is in the right place.


I salute your service!  <>

Mark

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by C(Sea)Bass
that could be one of the only 5 posts on this thread that show some intelligence on the part of the poster. Good work.

I agree that was one of the better posts on this whole meandering mess about a mess. I'm sorry he had to go there, once is enough. I tried to convince a couple of people i met to not go there and enlist and get involved in this. I didn't want to see them waste their lives. They had this crazy idea that it was the brave thing to do, the dutiful thing to do. I said don't pledge your duty to an administration and leadership that is failing you. That changed it's motives for why, what and how it's doing things constantly. That speaks to me that they don't know what they're doing. It's not the soldiers fault it's the administratrion that assigns them. Nothing we can do now, i tried to change this by not voting for him last time, and getting more troops killed and wounded. Supporting the troops does not mean blindly standing by and watching our government kill them. It does not mean blindly standing by and watching our government beat our soldiers head into a wall repeatedly. To see our government doing that extremely pisses me off. This is not something to sign up for, if any war was it was WW2. I'd sign up for that. It was army against army, nation against nation, good guy against the clearly seen bad guy. Not good guy against " That guy over there that could be a terrorist, i can't tell because he's wearing street clothes so i can't engage, don't want to upset the locals, so i gotta keep it PC. The soldiers are imerged in a land of enemies against the enemies, how you identify the bad guys to kill them at enough of a percentage to create massive and lethal destruction and an end to this war i don't know. I really wish BBB would explain it too me. That is not a tacticully good and intelligent use of our army. Since the army is not designed for that kind of war, i'd say change the tactics. To keep employing troops in the way they are being empoyed is foolhardy, and a diservice to their memory and current service. That really pisses me off to see. For any folks out their who think Iraq is going to have a democratic government or that they want one exactly, your most likely severly mistaken. That is a totally different environment and culture, to believe so is assuming everyone wants to be like America because were so great and everyone elses's government sucks. That is very arrogant. I predict that as soon as or not very long after the army leaves, the region will descent into even more violence. Terrorist will most likely leave Iraq because we will have left and start attacking us somewhere else. It's easier to attack us there then fly all the way to America.  Of course not all of them will leave they will be involved in the massive cultural suicide we have stirred up. This is even with the Iraqi army built up to survive the onslaught. I believe some of the members of the Iraqi army have religous and societal affiliations and will help break it up in the process. Let's just say if it holds together it's a miracle. It's like a massive house of cards were constructing only to have it fall apart as we leave. If this is something that it's worth it to you to be involved in, to die for by all means go ahead, i am too smart to get involved with this and can tell what will probably happen. If you think i will blindly follow my government and support something i don't believe in which is a bad situation and an ill use of our military, i will not. How supporting the troops is waving at our government and going along and saying "Go on and get killed Johnny boy i'm with ya" i don't know. One of the steps of a crumbling country is it's citizens seeing no evil and going along with the process.

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
That's the point of these little thingys:    

and when I corrected your grammar, I used the winky thingy.

LOL, Holding Mc Groin, i saw the winky but wasn't sure, sorry anyway.

[ink]

[lazs2]

LOL.. soooo... after all this, we are back to the same old thing..  skyrock and moray and ledpig don't like the way the war is run but have no idea of what to do.... moreover..... they admit (no paragraphs so you have to wade through it) that....

We can't just run away... that the troops need to be there.   so really, all they are doing is whining... no suggestions for a solution... no ideas... no nothing but whining... and this somehow "supports the troops"?

The media watching the troops like hawks hoping one of em makes any mistake that they can crucify him for is "supporting the troops"?

moveon.org and the democrats calling the troops too stupid to have a real job is "supporting the troops"?

Pulling the troops out before they get they get the results that they have sacraficed so much for is "supporting the troops"?  

I think you are just to dishonest to say that you really don't give a crap about the troops and that you just hate the current administration and realize  that victory in iraq  means defeat for the weepy, menopausal, socialist democrats that you want in power.

lazs

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by lazs2
LOL.. soooo... after all this, we are back to the same old thing..  skyrock and moray and ledpig don't like the way the war is run but have no idea of what to do.... moreover..... they admit (no paragraphs so you have to wade through it) that....

We can't just run away... that the troops need to be there.   so really, all they are doing is whining... no suggestions for a solution... no ideas... no nothing but whining... and this somehow "supports the troops"?

The media watching the troops like hawks hoping one of em makes any mistake that they can crucify him for is "supporting the troops"?

moveon.org and the democrats calling the troops too stupid to have a real job is "supporting the troops"?

Pulling the troops out before they get they get the results that they have sacraficed so much for is "supporting the troops"?  

I think you are just to dishonest to say that you really don't give a crap about the troops and that you just hate the current administration and realize  that victory in iraq  means defeat for the weepy, menopausal, socialist democrats that you want in power.

lazs

Laz
Obviously, with your 20K posts you are too busy spouting off the agenda than to use your brain and think about things.  Your lumping of people into categories and subsequently villifying them, without knowing or understanding their ideology shows your burgeoning amount of idiocy.  The fact you take the time to post 21000 posts on this BBS speaks volumes on the lack of time you actually devote to resource gathering or actual thought on the subjects you diarrhea from the mouth constantly about.

I personally have no party affiliations.   I am not a socialist.  I simply look at things as what is best for this country, and that is simply from my opinion as a citizen in this country with one vote, just like you.  Sir, I have not berated you in this post or lumped you into the neo conservative grouping I might logically devolve you into.  I don't know you and I don't care to... but I also don't pretend to.  So, DON'T assume sir, that I have any leaning toward democrat or republican.  I have a funny way of thinking that a goverment claimed democratic, which in reality is a republic, should effect what IS THE PEOPLE'S WILL.

[MORAY37]

For Laz...

21,000 posts ..

Figure an average of 5 minutes per post.  (Probably statistically too small, considering you are likely a slow typist, but I'll use it anyway.)

=105,000 minutes
=1750 hours
=73 DAYS You've spent of your life typing posts onto this BBS.  73 DAYS.


Please sir, start using your time to go OUTSIDE or to READ A BOOK or two.  You may possibly learn what critical thinking is.  How could you possibly understand ANYTHING more than anyone, when do you take time to research your position?...obviously you don't do much except post here.
You opinionated blowhard.